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Guys,

There are a few things that I should point out. Over the last 9 months, I've listened to my fair share of live music in smaller more intimate settings. In these venues, there are no microphones or pick-ups for the drums. I don't hear any "thump" of the kind that we all like. It simply isn't there. So the 600 is giving a very faithful reproduction of reality.

Now having said that, I like some of you out there, like the thump non-linearity. So again, I don't think that linear bass is necessarily appealing...especially to those of us that have had the pleasure of thumping. Note that I didn't say booming. They are two different things . I think Axiom would do well to put a "linear/thump" switch on its DSP subs to satisfy everyone out there. I really believe this is one of the last missing ingredients on subs like the 500 & 600.

The other quality that I've raised from time to time is "snapping". This is the sound of the drumstick striking the skin. This is a higher frequency sound with components above 100Hz. When I compare the live venues to what I hear out of my Axioms, there is definitely something missing. Interestingly enough, with my Bose 601s the "snap" is well-defined. This is not to say that I'll take the Boses over the Axioms...not even close. But I am convinced there is a "hole" somewhere between 100Hz and 200Hz in my Axiom system. And it's not my room like some have suggested because when my Boses are playing, the snap is there. Just like the thump is there when the Sony is playing.

The snap is the second missing ingredient. Now as to whether that snap needs to be filled by the sub or the mains is a matter of system engineering judgment. I don't know the answer to that one.

Mojo,

From my plots, there is a definite dip around 125Hz. It doesn't matter where I move my subs or mains. So I think your "hole" analysis may be warranted. If I remember, this dip also shows up on the Axiom M80 curves.


All,

Okay, I tried using the BFD to replicate this "punch". Using 62 Hz as the freq, I would say it sounded more muddy. There was some additional thump, but not much. I moved the frequency up to around 72 Hz, and it got worse. Then... I moved it down to 55Hz.

There was definitely a much more pronounced sense of punch. I raised the gain from +6 to +9 db, and it was even more pronounced.

Now, saying after all this... I'll give you my opinion of this addition. To me, it sounded like one of those cars passing down the street with the windows open driven by a 17 year old. That same resonating frequency that you feel as the car drives by, the one that seems to shake your fillings and drown out the actual music... That's the sound that was amplified at 56 Hz.

It certainly added a lot of punch to the music, but to me anyway, it sounded very artificial. I tried several genres of music (from Reggae, to pop, to classic rock), and both slow and fast music. As long as the frequency was in the mid 50 Hz range, there was a lot more punch with only a little added muddiness.

Having said that, it all comes down to what you like to hear. In my case, I immediately removed the filter. I did not really care for it. But, if this is what you are looking for, an EP350 with a BFD added to it may (imo) give you what you are looking for (for a hack of a lot less money).

If that's what you want to hear, getting a couple of cheap car subs and throwing them in random boxes sounds like the cheapest way to go, judging from that description. $900 for crappy boom car bass does not sound like a great deal to me.

I can't stand booming or flapping either. That's not the "thump" that I'm referring to .

From what I recall, Ian said that this is an aberration caused by microphone position.

...and I concur. Sroode, thx for your 'experiment' with your BFD, but it seems apparent the BFD in your case and the SMS-1 in my case can't quite produce what Mojo and I (and others) are talking about, at least with the EP500/600.

That's why I'm curious for Mojo and Jakewash's comments on the Ultra PB13, if what we're talking about is present on that sub, either thru flat settings or the use of the built in EQ.

Sorry I couldn't do more.

I will say that I do get what I consider "thumping" with my setup. To my ears, the "thump" is more of a 30-40Hz frequency, and I definitely get tight thumps when playing music. When playing movies, I also get the room shaking sub-30Hz response too.

I definitely hear the lower thumping as you describe but it's not what I would consider "tight". It's this tightness that I have with the Sony that I can't replicate with the 600.

the most important component in any sound system is the room.Always forgotten , mostly misunderswtood and definitely under-estimated !!

Agreed. In my case however, it is not the room that is causing these issues.