Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786
axiomite
|
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786 |
Fred
------- Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
|
|
|
Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331
axiomite
|
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331 |
I do not think anyone here on this forum called his product crap. The same can't be said about them about Axiom. Sorry just had to point that out. Nobody said or implied that anyone here on this forum called his product "crap" so I don't quite understand your point. And who is "them?"
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
|
|
|
Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331
axiomite
|
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331 |
I am presently installing the new crossovers, well they are in actually, and am waiting for another Axiom owner to lend me his M22s for a comparison, hopefully the results will be in by the end of the month I'll be eager to hear your impressions, Jake. Thanks for doing this. I'd like to make a few points before Jake shares his thoughts. I feel they are pertinent regardless of what, positive or negative, Jake has to say. Jake will be giving us his opinion. Nothing more, but nothing less. His perceptions don't mean that you or I would feel the same. I like, respect, and admire (1) the Colquhouns and everyone at Axiom, (2) the way they do business, and (3) the product they bring to market. I feel they provide one of the best values in audio. But, we all know that there are those who don't care for the Axiom sound. I don't have a problem with that. The same can be said about virtually every speaker in existence. However, I do have a problem when, in order to justify their opinion, they feel it necessary to characterize the product as "crap." We all know that is nonsense. I have no idea how Jake will feel about the Ninja crossovers. But, I humbly request that we treat his opinions with respect and don't allow this to degenerate into unnecessary bickering. Thanks again, Jake. and as always I will put forth the approach that unless these subjective observations are performed under objective controlled circumstances they will ultimately still mean very little If Jake present his opinions as objective science your point is valid. However, Jake has the right to his subjective opinion and the right to express that opinion and I, for one, am looking forward to hearing his opinion. It is left to each of us to decide for ourselves how much or how little that opinion means.
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
|
|
|
Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 Likes: 1
axiomite
|
axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 Likes: 1 |
Jeez, Jack, you're fired up and stirring the pot today.
While I do appreciate the repeated admonishments about "opinion" vs. "Science", there are a couple of elements worth noting, IMO.
First, the notion that we accept the information as "opinion only" requires relatively full disclosure about the circumstances under which that opinion was formed.
Second, it is possible if not likely that the crossover will impact the efficiency of the speaker. So, for there to be a relevant comparison (rather than a review), the level matching does become pretty important.
To me, there is quite a bit more burden on a comparison than there is upon a listening session by those familiar with the sound of the original model.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
|
|
|
Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,955
axiomite
|
axiomite
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,955 |
While I agree that proper testing procedures are required for definitive proof of audible differences when dealing with the same class of speakers, there are situations where there is such an Extreme difference in quality as to safely make an immediate judgment of preference.
For instance, put a small cube speaker from a cheap HTiB setup up against an M80 grade floor stander??? An extreme example to be sure. True, in this case we are dealing with a modification to just one component without changing anything else like the driver, cabinet, etc. Here there is indeed argument for controlled testing.
However, just to be the devil's advocate..... What if Jake adds in these new crossovers and they change the sound in such a large degree that it is simply unmistakable. Unlikely but perhaps the new crossovers are tuned sooo way off for this particular speaker configuration that it turns them into the tinny sounding equivalent of a tiny cube speaker. Or, to be fair to Ninja, maybe it goes the other way around. Although an improvement to that scale is even more unlikely due to the laws of diminishing returns on a speaker of this caliber.
So no disagreement on the necessity of controlled testing for most situations but lets not say his experiment has no value just yet. I for one, look forward to his comments as he is the only one investing the time and money to do at least this much.
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
|
|
|
Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,898
connoisseur
|
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,898 |
Tom, agreed, this is about as heated a discussion as I've seen in awhile from the generally fair-mannered Axiomites. (though still quite civil fortunately) Call me simple, but I just want to hear what Jay thinks when he hears the speakers. I'm confident he'll do as good of a job as he can to be impartial and create a good controlled listening session and that's about all I can ask for. For me though, I have zero interest in buying these (for one thing, I don't own M22s) so for me it's just curiosity, not anything on which I'll make a purchase decision. Looking forward to it Jay. Jason
Epic 80-800: HG Cherry
|
|
|
Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
......investing the time and money to do at least this much. Luckily no money, Sean made good his offer to supply the XO's, so I have nothing invested other than my time, which is at a premium these days, but sleep only gets in the way of getting things done .
Jason M80 v2 VP160 v3 QS8 v2 PB13 Ultra Denon 3808 Samsung 85" Q70
|
|
|
Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 Likes: 1
axiomite
|
axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 Likes: 1 |
Yes, Jay, many thanks for your time and trouble. Like Jason said, I have absolute trust and faith in you and your ears. Your experience should prove very valuable to others. So, you know, if you want to listen to them before you get the stock ones for comparison, that would be okay
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
|
|
|
Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116
connoisseur
|
connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116 |
I was referring to Ninja. IMO he made some disrecptful comments about Axiom in that Axiom m22 measurements thread. Not very professional IMO. Maybe you should give him a lecture too :D.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
|
|
|
Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
Another plus for me in doing this, I was able to convince my wife I needed to move the M80s upstairs till I was done with the comparison. I've always wanted to have them on the main floor for an extended period of time.
Jason M80 v2 VP160 v3 QS8 v2 PB13 Ultra Denon 3808 Samsung 85" Q70
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics24,951
Posts442,535
Members15,623
|
Most Online2,082 Jan 22nd, 2020
|
|
0 members (),
179
guests, and
1
robot. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|