Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Hearing Things A six month long test of an Axiom Tower vs. ???

Mojo - Thanks for the clarification. It would be interesting to, when we are not doing comparison listening with two pairs of speakers, to try various speakers with and without "toe in" and report on the audible differences, if there are any.

Matt - Thank you. As I was not sure how this style of review would work in the "real world", positive feedback helps.

I should clarify again that my toe in was severe. 45 degrees severe! The difference between toe in and no toe in was very audible.

Great insights so far Craig. I like how you are characterizing each speakers performance in relatable terms.

Based on your initial impressions is it fair to say the Axioms live sound is due to their wide dispersion and smooth off axis response? The legacys by contrast seem more directional and would hint a rolloff of higher frequencies off axis.

To bias the m100s toward a studio sound you can reduce early reflections. This will improve imaging and clarity at the expense of ambience and spaciousness. This is what Mojo was doing with severe toe in. I would be curious to see what placing absorbers along the sides of your A/B test setup would do to your test result. My prediction is the Axioms would approach the Legacy sound in terms of clarity and intimacy. The Legacys would take on a more live/spacious sound if strong reflections were placed alongside your test.

Diffusers alongside your A/B test would result in a staggeringly wide soundstage with the Axioms at the expense of pinpoint clarity.

Do you find that over time your preference leans towards a live or studio sound wrt the speaker design?

I have an interesting note to make about the "live" sound of the Axioms.

When I visited my local AV store last week, the guy there was showing me their collection of Bryston A-series speakers. Among them they had the A-1s, which is akin to the Axiom M-100's, as I'm sure you all well know.

This guy loves to relate background stories to me about speakers/amps, etc. (case in point, he has many times talked to me about the NRC project which resulted in many Canadian speaker makers...).

But, coming back to my point, on this day he talked about James Tanner's quest to develop a speaker which could accurately reproduce the live music experience.

The guy at my AV shop said that the A-1's were, bar none, the best he had ever heard at achieving this (in his opinion, of course).

Knowing what we know about Bryston and Axiom working on these speakers together, perhaps it is not accidental that the Axioms also reflect this trait?

Mojo - 45 degrees is pretty severe, it's easy to understand why the difference was so audible. Even the response curve will be shaped quite differently at the listening position.

The speakers here are at appx. a 10 degree toe in.

The female voice ranges from about 160 to 1280 Hz, and of course, harmonics above this. The differences between the two speakers is not a major one. It requires some careful listening to notice the difference.

When doing these listening tests, I won't look at measurements until after reporting what was heard. This avoids the tendency to report what the measurements suggest one should hear.

BUT - now that some listening results (and what you see posted is the result of about 20 hours of listening per speaker), some analysis is good.

In looking at the M-100 response curve, from 160 to 500 Hz - right in a female singer's "center" for most recordings - is down about 3 dB from the 100 Hz response.

I don't have a response curve to look at with the Legacy's, but it would not surprise at all if this (160 to 500 Hz) bandwidth was flat, or possibly even a bit above, the M100's.

Trying to convey all the information is quite the task. For example, when I mentioned the Legacy's went a bit deeper in the bass, I didn't mention that the M100's are more powerful in the kick drum region. On "The Wall", for example, the 35 Hz kick drum is more powerful on the M100's.

It is in the synthesized bass on a couple of tracks of "2 against nature" that the deeper bass of the Legacy's becomes apparent.

East Coast - It is no surprise that the A1's and M100's would sound comparable, if not identical. I am not sure there are any differences between them.

My personal preference leans towards the "live sound" when it comes to loudspeakers. That being said, it is also easy to appreciate what a speaker like the Legacy Signature SE brings to the table.

We are supposed to get some serious rain this weekend, and I may be stuck indoors. If so, I will try additional toe in - and probably block a port or two, with the M100's, then do more listening on the same female vocal discs.

This is where the long term aspect comes into play. I do wish there were more Legacy owners in a forum that could chime in.

Indeed, Craig. You can see the severe toe-in at the link below. I tried this toe-in because the sound was "too spacious".

http://www.axiomaudio.com/mojo

I've tried a few things over the years to clean up the live sound including absorbing panels from Serenity_Now. The best results I've had to date is my Onk's XT32. I can say I am very satisfied now.

Mojo - Great looking room - nice place to listen to music!

I have not yet tried XT-32 on any of the 4 speaker pairs here.

If the weather is as lousy this Saturday as predicted, I may hook up the EP-800 with the M100's and try the combo as a "super speaker", the M100's sealed and crossed at 60 Hz.

Craig. Your observations on the M100s soundstage are interesting. At the last Axiom get together, the did a blind listening session for us of what turned out to be the M3 and a pair of B&W Diamond bookshelves. The Diamond's had their own strengths, but I was amazed at the soundstage the M3 created. It was far superior to a very expensive, well regarded bookshelf.

Fred - Blind listening tests are absolutely the way to go. It's funny when people are so adamantly opposed to them ... one often hears comments such as "I don't need a blind test to tell the difference."

The response to this, of course, is: "If it's so easy to tell the difference, one should INSIST on a blind test".

For a quick update - I could no longer stare at the EP-800 sitting idle. It was fired up Friday night, and over the weekend, several movies were watched with both the Legacy's and the M100's, along with some additional listening to music.

The addition of the sub was quite helpful in music - and was so on both speakers.

And the EP-800 is quite the sub. Not enough time has been spent with it for a real review - but it had no trouble shaking our basement theater on Lord of the Rings, Two Towers.

And on music, it never "got in the way". It just extended bass, and by taking the signal below 60 Hz from the speakers, both experienced a deeper soundstage and improved vocals.

There will be more on all of this as time permits.