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>>If the only option I have with my receiver is speaker size in speaker setup, doesn't that mean the receiver internally crosses at whatever frequency it is programmed for say, small surrounds? If that is the case do I understand that I don't really have a way of really controlling the x-over freqs to the surrounds per se?

Many (but not all) receivers have the ability to adjust the crossover frequency in addition to choosing "small or large". The small/large decision essentially determines whether the crossover will be engaged for that speaker -- the frequency can be either fixed (usually somewhere between 100 and 200 Hz) or adjustable.

A few receivers (HKs for sure) let you set different crossover frequencies for mains, center, surrounds and (if 7.1) rears. HK owners take great pleasure in reminding owners of other receivers about this at every possible opportunity

EDIT -- I have been trying to download the manual for your receiver to see if it has adjustable crossover frequency but with no success. You are going to have to dig out your own copy of the manual, sorry...

Thanks Bridgman and Thasp. I think I'm liking the Axioms around an STF-1 idea. I'm the type that tries and get the most out of my dollar and this case it means a setup that can handle both music and movie situations and it sounds like this is a good compromise. As long as the STF-1 can go down and make me feel most of the LFE's in movies I'm sure I won't be disappointed. I'm not really a bass fiend when it comes to music as long as it accurately represents the recording. That said: Bridgman I'm going to check out the manual on my receiver to see about x-over freqs. And Thasp you said something about 'B' stock HSU's. Is that something like Axiom's Factory Outlet. Again, thank you for the info. I feel like I need to get Axioms just to become apart of the family.
Chowder, Sips

Tom, I took a look at the manual and see that it gives no clue as to their definition of a "small" speaker setting crossover. I'd suspect that it would have a fixed setting of well over 100Hz, possibly 120 or 150Hz. This would be too high to be ideal for the crossover to the Axioms and might lead to localization of the sub, but isn't unusable. The unit is apparently aimed at simple operation, but I was disappointed to notice that the DPLII width and depth adjustments when playing 2-channel material in surround mode(which most DPLII units have)weren't available. Making these adjustments can significantly improve the result in directing ambience from the front speakers to the surrounds where it belongs.

John,
Thanks, I dug out my manual and you're right. All I have the option to do is select speaker size, level, distance, and height. Nowhere does it mention what the crossover frequencies are. Do I understand it correctly that if it crosses at say, 150Hz, and the Axiom QS4's response goes down to 100Hz, that there would be a hole between those frequencies? If so, how big a deal is that? I realize my receiver is very limited, but it was the only way I could convince my wife to get a DVD player and have something to drive 5.1. I only paid $150 and it's a Sony ES with digital amplification, which I thought was a really good deal. But as in most cases you do get what you pay for.
Thanks,
Tom

>>Do I understand it correctly that if it crosses at say, 150Hz, and the Axiom QS4's response goes down to 100Hz, that there would be a hole between those frequencies?

It's actually not that bad. If the QS4 goes down to 100 and your receiver crosses over at 150 there would be no problem since the QS4 would be able to handle anything the receiver sent to it. Higher crossover frequencies work with any speakers (even tiny HTIB systems) while lower crossover frequencies require larger and more expensive speakers (like the Axioms).

The only problems related to a too-high crossover frequency are (a) many people can "localize" the subwoofer with a crossover frequency >80 Hz (ie can distinguish that there is a separate subwoofer rather than having all the sound seem to come from the main/center/surround speakers) and (b) the sub won't do quite as good a job with the 100-150 hz range as the Axioms would.

Localizing the sub is not a big deal if you put the sub in the center near or behind the TV. Having the sub cover the 100-150 Hz range is a tiny argument in favor of getting a sub with a smaller driver although most subs seem to do an OK job up to 150 Hz anyways.

The fixed crossover frequency should not be a problem.

I'm still trying to learn this stuff. So does this mean that if the 22's response goes down to 60Hz would you ideally want to crossover to the sub at this point to take over the rest of the lows? Or is there more to it than that.
Thanks for all the info,
Sips

With 22s, you'll probably want to cross at 80--the 60 Hz is a nice number to quote, but they probably won't satisfy you down to 60 Hz.

I e-mailed sony's support to see if they could give me the respective crossover's associated with the speaker size chosen in the Speaker Setup. I see what you mean, it's my understanding that crossovers still allow some frequencies through below their listed frequency so some lower freq would still get to the fronts. Is that right?

The cutoff isn't a solid break; it's more of a curve. So yes, some lower frequencies will go to the mains, but it tapers off. Same deal with the high pass on the subwoofer.

Exactly. If the speaker's -3dB point is 60 hz, for example, you probably wouldn't want to set your receiver crossover to 60 if you wanted the best response from the speakers because the receiver is expecting the speakers to stay "flat" for at least 1/2 octave or so below the crossover point..

On the other hand, a lot of people on the board do set their crossover frequencies at or even a bit lower than the speaker's -3dB point to avoid localizing the sub. This is an issue because for many people the best sounding spot for the subwoofer is NOT right by the TV, so they either have to choose between having the sub in a bad spot (weak / crappy / boomy bass) or setting the receiver crossover lower than would be ideal for the speakers.

A good example of this would be the VP100 -- its -3db point is 95 Hz, but a lot of people run it with an 80 Hz crossover because that gives them the best overall sound. They are generally getting better bass effects (ability to place the sub where they want for better sound) at the cost of a (largely inaudible) dip between 80 and 100 Hz.

Again, I wouldn't sweat the higher crossover frequency on your receiver unless you determine that the only place in the room where the sub sounds good is way off to one side or behind you. The Axioms will be putting out sound down to 100 Hz and below, just relatively less below the crossover point (and the sub will be picking up the slack).

Speaking of subs, does your receiver have a "subwoofer out" RCA jack ?