Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Bass Management / speaker size setting

I did a search and found some information, but it didn't answer my question directly, so here goes........

I have Pioneer Elite DV-45A DVD player, and an Outlaw Audio 1050 receiver. Both units allow me to set the speakers to large or small for bass managment.

The Pioneer manual says that the large/small selection only affects the 5.1 analog outs (for DVD-A, SACD). This setting has no effect on the digital output for regular CD's and DVD's. I do have the 5.1 analog outs hooked up and I use it. One of my questions is, what is the crossover frequency of this setting? If I set the main speakers to Small, at what frequency threshold does the signal get diverted to the sub? The manual makes no mention of this. So it got me wondering, does the concept of crossover frequency even come into play? Maybe whatever is recorded on the .1 track of the 5.1 material, is ported to the sub regardless of the frequency (which will only be LFE material anyway). Does any one know?

The other question is: The Pioneer allows me to set the Mains to Large and have the sub turned on. Does this mean that all information, the 5 and the .1 of 5.1, will be sent to the mains AND the .1 will be sent to the sub?

Maybe I have to ask Pioneer, but that doesn't seem so easy to do, so I'll see if you guys know.

Thanks

It is true that the speaker settings on your Pioneer player only affect SACD and DVD-A playback (the signal going out yor 5.1 analog outputs). When you set the mains to large and the sub to on, then no material is diverted from your main speakers to the sub and the sub is left to reproduce only signals encoded specifically for the sub channel. (This setting only applies to music mixed in a surround format.) When you set the mains to small, then material lower than the cutoff frequency is diverted to the sub, which plays a mixture of that material and its own dedicated channel.

As to the crossover frequency, you'll need to get in touch with the product manufacturers. Most use the THX standard of 80Hz, but I've known some to use 90 or 100Hz, as well.

Here is the response I received from Pioneer tech support. It seems that English is a second language to the person answering, I'm not sure they really understood some parts of my questions. And I'm not sure I understand the answer fully. The crossover is either 120 or 150hz

"One of my questions is, what is the crossover frequency of this
setting?


Pioneer: When playing back 5.1 analog output signal of SACD or DVD
audio disc's the crossover allows you to adjust the bassmanagement of the
5.1 analog outputs.

If I set the main speakers to Small, at what frequency threshold does
the signal get diverted to the sub?

Pioneer: The DVD player send the low frequeancies below 120 hz to the
subwoofer out put on the DV45A.


The other question is: The DV-45A allows me to set the Mains to large
AND have the sub set to 'ON'. Will the low frequency information (the .1
of 5.1 dolby) be sent to both the main speakers and the sub?

Pioneer: If in the movie there is low ferqueance special effects in
the fron channel only and no the .1, the front bass speakers will
response to the bass of the front special effects of the movie.
the .1 channel could do nothing during that time.

Each channel of dolby digital and DTS is full-frequeance

20 to 20khz in the large mode.

If small from 150 hz to 20khz. "

One point of clarification: The subwoofer/LFE/.1 channel will never be diverted to the mains unless the subwoofer is set to off.

I'm guessing your crossover frequency is 120Hz. I don't know why there would be two different points, and 150Hz seems a bit high.

On ecousitcs I learned that my Pioneer 563A sacd / dvd-A player has two different crossover points if the speakers are set to small - the one for SACD playing was around 100Hz I think and the one for DVD-A was 150Hz I think.

So, maybe your Pioneer Elite DV-45A DVD player has different crossovers for different media as well.

Why? Who knows. 150Hz seems way to high!

I can dig up the old thread if you want - but it may not have any bearing on your better player.

I have the 563A. I believe the internal crossover points are 120hz for SACD and 200hz for DVD-A. I saw that in a review somewhere. Both are way too high for good sound. An ICBM would work well with my 1050, but I have only 1 SACD. I don't have the extra cash to add to that on any regular basis, so I'm debating whether or not to add an ICBM.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118892&perpage=30&display=&pagenumber=1

particlarly post #64


http://www.audioreview.com/cat/home-video/dvd-players/pioneer/PRD_140121_1587crx.aspx

and post #142 , 163 and 164

I am not sure if this helps with the original question, but it was the answering some of my questions.

That's very helpful, thanks.

Looks like I'll have to get an ICBM, or maybe replace the Outlaw 1050 with a newer unit that has the bass managment built in.

Having read through the 9 pages on that list - I am now confused (it doesn't take much).

I guess to use multichannel on the early pioneer universal players one has to hope his receiver can do bass management, or get an outlaw ICBM unit or live with crossovers to the sub as high as 120Hz (SACD) and 200HZ (DVD-A) depending on the format.

I have been using my receiver to do the BM but I don't think it is great at it either - I will have to look again.

I think the problem is that in 5.1 channel mode it will only play the LFE info. So, if there is no LFE info as there isn't on many classical surround cds - no bass played by the subwoofer in HI-Rez format. Or else ALL bass up to 200HZ played by the subwoofer. My Hsu is flat only up to 100HZ and is down 3DBs at 150Hz - so for DVD-A this is unworkable.

So, do I need a $300 ICBM for my 20 or so SACDs and DVD-As? I will have to keep track of how much I play them, I guess.

As they said in that thread - if I buy an ICBM then I will see what I have been missing.

Is this an accurate summary - if anyone cares to answer?