Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Receiver: Arcam vs Marantz vs Integra

This has gotten old real fast. For those of you who have actual first hand experiences, please share your views. Agree or disagree but at least do it based on experience and not on what you read on the can one day.

Way too many folks around here throw out statements like they are the gospel and have little if any experience on what it is they are debating. Throw away the charts that everyone loves to bring up and base it on your own real world experience! If you can't, then I'm lost.

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Of course the flat-worlders will tell you that all CD Players sound the same.

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Flat-worlders? You mean the people that believe their eyes -- the eyes that tell them the world is flat -- and ignore the scientific evidence to the contrary?

Seems to me that label would be better applied to the person who stares back at you in the mirror.

Hi NeverHappy

I'll share my impressions of the various 2 channel amps I've had over the recent years. (Too many, because I'm never Happy, or because of my relentless pursuit of the perfect sound ...)

Rated in order of sound qualities:

1. Antique Sound Labs MG S1 15DT with upgraded caps Mullard long plate 12AX7's, Electro Harmonix KT88s. Fabulous midrange, sweet highs, huge soundstage, excellent imaging. 5 watts per channel in Single End Triode Mode. I've used this amp with M2e's, M3Tis, M22s, M50, Michaura M55s, M66s, Wharfdale Diamond 9.1's.

2. Kenwood KA9100 - top of the line Kenwood 2 channel 90 wpc with power meters, this amp is the second best I've had. Involving, lively ... love to listen to music from this amp, more so than my other solid states.

3. Anthem PVA5. Wonderful amp.

4. Onkyo Integra M506. Great amp. bass very tight and controlled.

5. Yamaha M80. Bruiser. Drives the Thiels effortlessly. after back and forth with the M504, decided the M80s sound better. Like them so much I got 3 of them for my Home Theater system.

6. Onkyo M504. Excellent amplifier.

7. T-Amp modded. What a joke! $20.00 and sounds absolutely terrific. Cannot drive 93db efficient speakers to reference levels. Bass not as tight as big boys. Highs and mids are superb. Within its comfort zone its a mid pack performer.

8. Kenwood KMX 1000 (didn't like it, returned it right away. Lifeless.)

I never did A/B tests or measured the apparent width of the sound stage, imaging abilities ...

Impressions are based on living with these amps.
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I love reading these debates. It's what makes these boards interesting. And life in general I might add. Diversity, diversity, diversity. Without which, life would be rather dull. So keep it up gents. Keep it up!

By the way. My opinion is not set but I tend to lean towards scientific reasoning. . . .having said that

Installing an external amplifier in an automobile has in my applications made a dramatic change in the sound (for the better). Perhaps this is because the deck units have flawed amplifiers. . .but who knows. I just know that I would always smile hugely once I fired up the external amp and gave it a listen. (numerous vehicles)

No these weren't double blind tests. . . not even close. But I think that we don't give our ears and brains enough credit. Yes we are incredibly biased to how much we spend on something and how much we like it and how much effort we put into researching something and how much we like it etc etc. But sometimes it is the opposite. We spend a fortune on something and expect a world from it and we are not impressed in the least. Sometimes we find things like T-amps and are impressed with the quality per dollar ratio.

I think we have incredible ears and incredible brains interpreting what our ears are picking up. We probably are able to tell the difference in sounds between different components. We are probably able to do more than what science can measure. After all science can't measure what you "actually hear".

Or maybe we just need our eyes to be able to hear really well

I don't know, but I sure like hearing you guys discuss it. Discuss being a nice way of saying argue.

nicely put. Very nicely put.

Gives me enough fuel for another round. Any of you round-earthers wanna go again?

Again? I'm still waiting for round one or at the very least someone with first hand knowledge to jump in and disagree with me. I also agree with most of what 2X6 had to say and good for him for doing it.

Right or wrong I at least speak from what I have experienced first hand.

This has been anything but a debate...........more like a lecturing on why the little graph says it so…….so it must be so and if you don't believe the little graph, you’re hearing things........and that is my point, I do hear things and not all those things sound the same.

As for the car stuff, I know nothing about car audio but I did recently have the factory CD player removed from my van and in went an Alpine. Does it sound better? I honestly think it sounds worse and I have yet to figure out why. That blows the theory of spending money and needing your brain or ears or whatever to think it sounds better to justify the money.

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That blows the theory of spending money and needing your brain or ears or whatever to think it sounds better to justify the money.

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You're right that this has been anything but a debate, and this quote shows it. You ignore the actual things I say and put things in my mouth that I never said. Where did I say anything about money and needing to justify spending it?

I'm fully aware of more money not equating to better anything. If you actually took the time to read my posts -- this goes for 2x6, especially -- instead of assuming I am the worst kind of graph-worshipper, you might realize that our beliefs aren't as incompatible as you continue to assert.

Again, not all amps sound the same. I'm just saying differences in sound will show up in the specs. If the specs are the same, the sound will be as well.

"Again, not all amps sound the same. I'm just saying differences in sound will show up in the specs. If the specs are the same, the sound will be as well. "

Well said Peter, facts are the facts. I trust graphs over ear drums.

pm: it would sure be nice if an independent testing company would test receivers, pre/pros, and amps like Consumers Reports does for lots of things. While I think that Consumers Reports misses the boat every once in a while, I think that they do an OUTSTANDING job. My hat is off to them.

I don't know if any of the manufacturers cook their specs, but I do know that I'm not going to argue electronics and physics with anyone "who thinks that the world is flat."

What's that old story about the little moron beating his head against the wall?

Hey, if anyone loves their $1000 speaker wires and Chinese tube amps, GO FOR IT and be happy!!

Still like to see some independent testing.

You trust Consumer Reports? I think they rather love Bose...