Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Experience with Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXSi?

I lusted after the Arcam for two years which is why when my HK 630 went in for warranty repair with 2 days to spare on the factory warranty I cherished the possibility of obtaining the Arcam. But as the receivers main duty station is in the family room serving TV and Movies the Rotel sounded better. I assumed it must be the DSPs of the Rotel vs the Arcam. What the Salesman said two years ago rang through my head as I tested them ... "Movies are mainly music and that's what Arcam focuses on ... the music". So I assume that was the differnce, my movies have more explosions and bullets than music.

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I beg to differ the "sonic" differnces between a Pioneer a mass produced receiver, a Rotel a Family owned English company ( also owns Bowers and Wilkins speaker company (B&W)) and a handmade in Cambridge England Arcam would be huge at nuetral settings as what's left is the quality of the amp. ...What the Salesman said two years ago rang through my head as I tested them ...

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Ron, these examples you give along with the statement about the salesman's word ringing in your head DEFINE the very biases that exist for which one cannot objectively know if there are differences between receivers/amps/preamps...

Try a blind A/B, a truly blind A/B test and you will see just how impossible it is to hear any differences between receivers that all reproduce signals with a perfectly flat response curve.
Granted power in the amp section can make a difference but only at higher SPL unless the amp section is really that horrible (e.g. Sony HTIB units).
I've been down this road with a hardcore stereophile friend of mine and he has since built and used his own switcher box for comparisons.

Here we go again...

The reference to the salesman statements was an attempt to explain how the Arcam could sound so good in music but miss the mark in Movies.
I didn't make my choice between the Pioneer, Rotel and Arcam based on a salesman statements but rather how they sounded through my Axioms in my room not theirs so although I didn't connect each output to a O scope and compare the traces, in my room, with my sources through my speakers with my ears the Rotel one. And that's all we can give readers here is our opinions based on our experiences.
Which is all I was trying to do ... articulate the results of my four days with three receivers.

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Here we go again...

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Hop onboard the train of truth Ken.
We're doing about 90 kph today.

I hope you wore your galloshes, because the levies broke and it's flooding with truth.

If we only talked about power amp section well then, maybe then there will not be much of a difference, but add all the "programs" or DSP's etc... and there is a difference that most will certainly notice. That difference, as clear as it may be, could be liked or not, but that's a matter of taste. Any of the receivers mentioned here would sound great...so, it's a matter of taste, features and warranty. Pepsi or Coke?

osvi

That's the nice and frustrating thing about audio equipment in this price range. Everyone wants the very best but there is too much subjectivity.

However, I do think that the A vs B question is reasonable to ask a large group of people. I might want to find the purchase I could make which would please the most people, rather than making the buy that would only please me. Without a poll you can't gather this data.

osvi,

Take a page from the world of science. Subjectivity in this topic means squat whether you believe it or not. People just don't like to hear it. It is an oppressive thought after all that your opinion means diddly and in America, they bear arms and try to shoot that person.
In China, you get shot instead.
In Canada we wait for the Americans to shoot someone and have the Chinese tell them they disagree.
Life is harsh.

Where is Bigwill when you need him? A China reference and he's no where to be found.