Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M22 vs M3

thanks for all the help guys, i really appreciate it!!

if it makes things clearer, i first heard the M22s on a tube anp. the dealer later switched it to an old (70's) Creek audio integrated amp 40wpc when i told him i will be using the speakers with a SS amp. the creek had more bass compared to the tube amp ( didn't find out the output of the tube).

all the later comparisons between the M3 and M22 was done on the Creek.

regarding the subwoofer, i was wondering how should i connect it to the system. should i
i) use a line level connection for the subwoofer, and leave the main speakers on full range
ii) use a line level connection for the sub, but put a high pass filter on the signal for the main speakers ( i was thinking 60-80Hz, but since the speakers roll off naturally around 60 Hz, this seems a bit redundant)
iii) use the speaker level connections for the sub, and take the high passed signal from the sub to the main speakers

what are the relative merits of using line level and speaker level connections?

Besides the Axioms, i am also looking at a couple other speakers; Kef Cresta 10,cresta 30, Tannoy Mercury MX1, MX3

Any opinions on the Wharfedale Diamond 8.2s? they get quite good reviews from some reviewers, others say they suck ( not so directly, but you get the idea)

I am quite undecided as to what i want to get. the Axioms are definately good, in fact they may be too good for me. i thought the other speakers that i listed would do the job for me as well.

Regarding the heavy metal, i listen to Metallica and some Manowar. Are their music EQ'ed to sound nice on FM radio?

i know this post is quite long and covers a lot of areas. i have been looking for speakers for quite some time and i just can't make up my mind. i am currently making do with a pair of JVC mini hifi speakers connected to my NAD.

I really appreciate the help from you guys!!

slack

Regarding the sub hook-up, your NAD 3100 has a line output for the sub??? -- that's a clever feature for the stereo integrated amp. Anyway, in that case, I would try ALL of the three configurations you listed. Experiment with each one of them (each with proper subwoofer calibrations), and pick the one that sounds best to you. It's a very small investment of your time for a potentially big difference in sound quality. And you are right -- I would not choose a crossover frequency much lower (or much higher) than 80Hz.

With regard to those "hot" recordings, I am no expert on Metallica, but judging from CDs my daughter owns, yes some of the tracks sound a bit "bright" on my Hales/Axiom system (which I think is quite "accurate"). In most case, though, all you need is to lower the treble tone control a notch or two. Personally, I would never be willing to sacrifice truly "good" recordings for the "hot" ones.

The middle to late Metallica CDs are pretty well mastered, with the height of it being the S&M set. Load and Reload are pretty good. I would grab the gold Master of Puppets remaster if I could, but the Ride the Lightning remaster isn't worth it. Basically, Kill 'em All, Ride the Lightning, Justice, and St. Anger don't sound so good (hi-fi speaking), but the rest are pretty good.

I actually don't think the middle to late albums are all that well mastered. Sure they're not pop, but I think they suffered from the same mastering mentality of "louder is better" as the rest of the mainstream music scene has.

For comparison's sake, I think the newest Coldplay album "A Rush of Blood to the Head" sounds waaaay better from a mastering point of view than those Metallica CDs, but it has definitely received the radio treatment.

You don't think S&M is well mastered? I think it does a better job of bringing out the nuances than any of their other CDs. I'll have to borrow the Coldplay album.

In reply to:

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To "No solidstate amp will make M22's bass "tighter" or "punchier"..." I just have to disagree. When I switched from my Onkyo receiver to my Rotel gear, the only clear difference was the bass becoming exactly "tighter". No, not a HUGE difference, but it was noticable. Curtis (Mr. Ascend) brought his 340's to my place and the first words out of his mouth were the fact that his Ascends bass was "tighter" through the Rotel gear than through his HK525. (And YES we were of course listening to the speakers sans sub)

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I agree with spliffnme here because there's the whole concept of damping factor. The higher the damping factor, the more control that the amplifier will have over the driver, and that can help for tightness.

No Will, sushi is correct. This is yet another example of what is essentially an audio myth. As this analysis by Dick Pierce shows, there's no significant "tightness" factor and until the damping factor gets down into the low single digits(i.e. some tube amps)there're no significant response fluctuations.

JohnK,

I read the research paper -- the whole thing. Looks like an open-and-shut case: damping factor is a pointless statistic. One BIG strike against amp manufacturer marketing departments.

To the habitual science-shunners among us, this paper is not saying that different amps don't make a speaker sound different. It just completely rules out damping factor as a possible source of any perceived difference.

BAH! I've been fed too many marketing lies by Yamaha!