Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Texas' New Epicenter

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x330954

check out the post at the bottom by DCKit

No that the initial euphoria has subsided, a bit more on my experience thus far. After spending about an hour with the sub today and calibrating with Rich's SPL meter (thanks Rich!), it turns out that the windows rattling were only half of the noise I was hearing when I was first testing the sub.

There is something inside the woofer cabinet that is loose (or maybe it is the woofer cone itself) making a noise that can be heard over the bass during extreme bass scenes (Nemo-Darla scene, U571-Depth Charged scene, etc). Total bummer.

It is not audible during most music, which is good, so I'm still getting a sense for what it is capable for, but I have a sinking feeling I'm going to have to send this one back unless the folks at Axiom can help me troubleshoot the problem from home. I wrote JC a note next week and we're planning on talking this week in more detail. I'll keep you guys posted.

As a side note, I have to sadly report that thus far the difference between this and my existing Earthquake MKIV 12" sub is much more subtle that I expected. The EP600 plays a touch lower and without question much louder. However, my room is small enough (12x20x9 enclosed) that it doesn't require the volume, so that isn't a noticeable difference in most situations. Considering the EP600 takes up at least 3x the physical space and was not a cheap upgrade, I had envisioned a more dramatic effect.

Today I did some A/B testing with the existing sub versus the 600 using the Dave Matthews Blu-Ray, Eagles DTS DVD, and a couple of regular rock & country CDs. My impressions thus far are that the 600 is lacking the pressurizing 'thump' I was hoping for. It is a touch better than the Earthquake both in sound depth as well as "punch," but both are very subtle differences. I have experimented a fair amount with placement (I've done "the crawl") and also the trim settings and didn't find that the performance changed dramatically.

The only way I seem to be able to get the oomph I want is to really crank up either the sub's gain knob or the receiver's channel setting. Doing that does bring up the bass but it soon makes for a muddy sound as the bass overpowers the rest of the sound. (the Earthquake has the same problem, and it was what I was hoping to overcome with the 600).

I can't tell you how much it pains me not to write a glowing review, but after shelling out the big bucks for this monster, I really was expecting fireworks (loud, deep, thumping ones) I definitely want to give it a fair evaluation and am reaching out to the rest of the experts here to see if perhaps the 600 wasn't the right choice in the first place for what I'm looking for or if there is more tweaking I could do to bring out the sound I was hoping for. I've read a lot of comments in the past that maybe the new 350 or 500 has more of a "punch" factor... maybe I should have gone for something different than the 600? Or, maybe the flapping noise that comes out when playing extreme bass has an effect on the sub's sound when playing music too, even though it can't be heard over the source material??

I'm voting for this scenario at the moment. If there's something wrong with the driver, none of your experiences thus far are particularly valid.

Good luck

Myrison,

I don't know what to suggest. You have witnessed exactly what I've been complaining about for some time. Including the rattle.

I actually have two rattle sources. The first is from the amp. I've removed and replaced the amp too many times and that has caused at least one of the bolt holes to widen since the bolts go into MDF and nothing else. The other rattle source is the driver itself. I replaced the driver, the driver noise was gone but now it's back again. Both of these issues however are not noticeable during regular listening; only when I put on sine waves and white noise.

My biggest complaint however is the lack of "thump", "punch"...whatever you want to call it. I expected a lot better for the $2K I paid over a year ago now. Do you have the 150Hz firmware and is that what you've dialed the 600 to?

Now having said all that, I haven't heard anything better for my 4,000 cubic foot space. Maybe the SVS that Jason has coming will fix that. I do have to admit however that the $160 Sony sub that I have paired up with audiobytes in my 1,000 cubic foot office gives me more musical pleasure than the 600 .

Some have said that it has to do with my room. But my Sony thumps in my big space. It just doesn't go as deep or play as loud.

I love my room treatments.

I don't think room treatments make much difference when it comes to "thump" or "punch" of a sub.

I have a 500, and have the same issue as Mojo and myrison. I can absolutely identify with what they are describing, minus the driver rattle. Well, I do have a port rattle at 20-30 hz, but only really detectable w/test tones.

I also have heard (as I've posted before) a friend's older Yamaha sub (dual 6 inch drivers, maybe 100 watts) in my place and his, and while it certainly isn't as loud and doesn't go as low as the 500, it does sound punchier and "faster". Man, does that bug me.

I'm staying tuned for Mojo's comparison...

Myrison,

If you get a chance, and still have use of the meter, download REW (Room Equalization Wizard). Run a sweep from 15 to 150 Hz. My guess is that you have a large bump in your room around 60Hz (give or take). When you calibrated the level of the sub, it was at the dominant frequency. If you have this bump, it can be fixed easily using a parametric EQ like the BFD.

It won't take more than 30 mins to setup and try. Before EQing my 500's I had a very similar impression. Afterwards, may bass sounds deeper, punchier, and faster.

Hi SRoode... I read your posts and saw your graphs using your new equipment, and I'm glad to hear you got good results.

I neglected to mention in my post above that I have an SMS-1 and have flattened the FR in my room. While the bass response was definitely cleaner and more even throughout the bass range, there was no improvement in 'slam' or 'punch' for me.

So, I tried dialing some in around the 60-70hz area (I think it was in that range, it's been a while), with only moderate results.

While the improvement the SMS-1 made was certainly beneficial, I'm not yet at the bass 'place' I want to be, especially since my bud's 'cheapo' Yamaha sub can provide some of the qualities I like by just plopping it down and turning it on...in my place or his!

Hi Spoiler,

I would love to be able to see a sweep of the Yamaha sub. I'm wondering if the Yamaha has a peak at a frequency that gives the feeling of more "punch".

With the REW curve I'm using now, the room literally shakes during LFE scenes, with plenty of punch. When playing music, the bass is not overdone, and is nice and tight.

Like Spoiler, and as I've said before, I can drop my cheap Sony into my huge room and hear "punch". By punch, I mean the initial attack of the stick hitting the skin of the drum or a bass string being released. This initial attack has a rise time of 5 to 10 milliseconds which puts the frequency at 100 to 200 Hz. The 600 has no hope of reproducing this with its 100Hz brick wall filter.

Is this attack any better for those that are using the amp that has the 150Hz filter?