Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners HELP!! I need some help and Advice

Alright,

So I have bought some M60's, VP150 and a brand new Denon 3808. I did the basic Audyssey setup with 6 points. I have a velodyn 10" subwoofer. I installed everything about 2 weeks ago or so. Not to impressed with the sound, but did not really have anything to compare it to. I had a customer of mine who went to Best Buy and purchased Definitve towers open box (half the price of what I paid), Denon 1908 receiver (Not even close to the Denon 3808 receiver that I have and 1/3 of the Price), Definitive center channel (Very small and again not close to the VP150), and Definitive small book shelf speakers for surrounds. He did not buy a sub as the towers have 8" sub in them. I also just performed the Audyssey setup right out of the box as I am the one who installed the system for him. I am just playing a simple song with 2.1 and his system just blows mine away. His is alot more acurate, cleaner sound, and you can hear all of the details when mine is very very flat. Doesn't make sense. My system should be a lot better sounding. I am just not happy with what I got. Any Ideas to improve what is going on. My sounds, sounds very flat. Highs seems good, but mids are just not there and lows are horrible too. Maybe my sub is not doing the job, but still I am expecting the M60's to really out perform on their own. What’s going on?? Any help is much appreciated. Just not to happy with all the money I have invested in this system.

Make sure the Audyssey Flat setting is not used. I did that once and it made everything sound one dimensional.

Thanks for the help!

I actually have turned the Audyssey setting to none, which sounds a bit better. But still not as impressive as the Definitive’s.

I've never heard Def Tech speakers and don't know what they're signature sound is (if there is such a thing). Come to think of it, I've never heard M60s either. I've owned Axiom M40s and M3s, which have a different sound than the rest of the line.

It may be that you just like the Def Techs better. Hopefully others will chime in with suggestions to try. Don't give up on the Axioms yet!

Yea - Something has to be wrong. I wonder if my Denon 3808 is just something wrong with it. As I have seen HTIB's sound better than my setup currently. Just fusterating when you have spent a lot of money and you are not happy with what you have got. To be honestly, if the Definitives where even just a little better, I dont think I would mind. But I am talking a hugh difference, that even a basic listner would be easy to tell the difference.

That makes me tend to believe something is wrong with the set up. Do you have another amplifier to hook up to the M60s? It's time to try trouble shooting and find out what the source of the problem is.

Double check the straps running from the bottom speaker connector to the top one is in straight and not sitting on top of the washers, as well as the wires not out of phase, although if you ran Audyssey it should have picked that up. I would also reset the processor in the 3808 and not run Audyssey until you have listened for awhile with out it then you can compare the sound differences.

If the Def tech's have an 8" driver it may just out do the M60s in the bass department and I know the M60s are a little more laid back than the M80s so you may just need to spend a few hundred more to achieve the sound you are looking for from Axiom, but by your description it does sound like something is not right.

Once you have reset the Denon run the M60s louder than you would normally and try to listen for a difference in mids and highs. I noticed the M60s were much more open and clear when ran loud than when at normal to low levels.

Those are all good suggestions. I have some alternative thoughts for you. Being pedantic in nature, I need to know everything about whatever it is I buy before committing.

I have spent countless hours pouring over posts about peoples perceptions about various speakers as well as reading articles about how we perceive sound.

First, the graphs of the Axiom line of speakers tell a consistent tale. One of a relatively even response across the spectrum and a relatively neutral, uncoloured sound.

On your comment about the midrange. From what I understand, a somewhat overemphasized midrange can result in a richer sound that may seem more pleasing in the short run. I have not seen any frequency graphs of the DefTechs so I don't know if this is the case, but it may well explain the difference in sound you hear.

The same goes for the bottom end. If you have a hump in the bass spectrum somewhere it will sound like more/better bass. A good Aziom example of this is the M3. It has a noticeable hump centered around 100Hz. You will often see people posting that the M3 has more bass. What it really has is louder bass in the 100Hz region.

I have seen the DefTech bass characterized as both over-emphasized and clean, so I don't know which it really is.

I have also seen it written in a number of places that at first a speaker with uncoloured sound will seem a little dryer or flatter. If you take the time to get used to that sound I believe what you get is more subtle detail and a more natural sound. You are trading off punch thump and zing for a more open transparent sound that is much closer to what you would get at a live performance.

What I would do is tweak your system to get the most out of it, and then have your friend bring over his speakers and do some a/b listening comparisons using the second zone on your receiver.

In the end, you have to go with what you like best.

Fred

Good comments, Fred.

Hi M60,

Couple of things. First, check to see how Audessey set your mains. My guess is it set them as large, since they are capable of -3db at 80Hz. If so, with the Subs set to "LFE" (default for the Denon), the subs will not get any bass. Play a song and see if the subs are active. If they are not (or moving VERY little), set the mains to "Small", and the crossover frequency at 80Hz to start with.

Also, I am a little confused when you say they sound "flat", but the highs are there and there is no mid. Typically, flat sounding speakers would have no highs and a lot of mid.

Welcome to the gang!

Edit: I also checked the Best Buy site. With those specs, your friend has the model 7006, which goes for $1300 a pair if not open box (compared to about $1000 a pair for the M60s). But you are right, the M60s should sound better (even though the 7006 really cost 30% more if you compare apples to apples). Seriously, check the main speaker setting