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Re: EP350 or EP400?
BoB/335 #244129 02/01/09 04:44 PM
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 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
That's a great article and confirms what I stated. Placement of the "Sub" can be critical. Not the mains. Being involved with PA (somewhat) I have been in discussions of low frequency cancellation. That can happen with 2 subs and is a good reason NOT to have a system set to "large" where the mains are carrying the same frequencies as the sub. It is the very reason why you should be setting your system to "small" when using a sub.


Bob that is contrary to Alan's 'Receiver and Subwoofer Crossover Setup' article, here's an excerpt...

'For Axiom’s larger tower speakers--the M80ti’s, M60ti’s, and M50ti’s--depending on the particulars of room size, start by selecting the "Large" setting on your receiver for the left and right main speakers, and "Small" for the center and surround channels. With these settings, and the subwoofer set to "On," most receivers will route full-range sound, including deep bass, to the main left and right speakers, and bass below 80 Hz to the "Sub Out" jack on the rear panel of the receiver. (Some rooms may benefit from smoother bass by getting deep bass from three room locations--the sub plus the main left and right speakers--rather than a single subwoofer.) If running your left and right fronts on "Large" produces too much bass output, change the settings for the mains to "Small." You can also experiment with crossover frequencies, raising the center-channel crossover frequency to 120 Hz if you find that results in smoother dialog sound with less coloration. But 80 Hz is a generally desirable crossover frequency in most applications.'

Here's the entire article... Reciever and Subwoofer Crossover Setup

I am using two subs with my 80's set to 'large' without any cancellations issues ... that I know of anyway.


Rick
Our Room

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Re: EP350 or EP400?
RickF #244135 02/01/09 06:00 PM
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I am constantly amazed at how important room and placement issues are. A horrible room can single handedly make an expensive system not sound so good.


***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose
Re: EP350 or EP400?
St_PatGuy #244136 02/01/09 06:09 PM
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I have heard of room having a huge effect but not to the extent of totaly cancelling a sub. I suspect there was something wrong inside the sub and for some reason, it is now working.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: EP350 or EP400?
St_PatGuy #244137 02/01/09 06:10 PM
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 Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy
I am constantly amazed at how important room and placement issues are. A horrible room can single handedly make an expensive system not sound so good.


::runs away with hands over the ears::


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: EP350 or EP400?
MarkSJohnson #244140 02/01/09 06:13 PM
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Keep them there Mark, After awhile you won't remember how bad your room actually is. ;\)


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: EP350 or EP400?
St_PatGuy #244148 02/01/09 06:32 PM
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 Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy
I am constantly amazed at how important room and placement issues are. A horrible room can single handedly make an expensive system not sound so good.


Having a bad room, I used to be surprised at how good my system sounded. As I learned more, it seems that most things have a much more subtle effect than many would have you believe. Call it the 'Blows this away' theory. People really want for there to be large differences between A and B, be it two sets of speakers a perfect room and a bad room, treated vs untreated...

Hell, I cut my giant room peak but 14db, a HUGE amount, and the difference is quite subtle. Maybe if I am able to resolve all my room issues the difference will be more pronounced, but I still doubt that the 'fixed' room will 'blow away' the original setup.

Maybe if you take the perfect recording in the perfect room with perfect speakers, it will blow away thaty crappy recording in that crappy room with crappy speakers, but in reality, there are just so many variables how likely is it that this will happen?


Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
Re: EP350 or EP400?
Wid #244152 02/01/09 06:49 PM
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 Originally Posted By: wid

If you're talking about co locating (stacking) two subs they will not cancel each other out. They will in fact have more output in this configuration.



I'm not sure what this was referring to. I agree that 2 subs stacked (and preferably side by side) will NOT cancel out each other.

Re: EP350 or EP400?
RickF #244153 02/01/09 06:55 PM
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 Originally Posted By: RickF
 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
That's a great article and confirms what I stated. Placement of the "Sub" can be critical. Not the mains. Being involved with PA (somewhat) I have been in discussions of low frequency cancellation. That can happen with 2 subs and is a good reason NOT to have a system set to "large" where the mains are carrying the same frequencies as the sub. It is the very reason why you should be setting your system to "small" when using a sub.


Bob that is contrary to Alan's 'Receiver and Subwoofer Crossover Setup' article, here's an excerpt...

'For Axiom’s larger tower speakers--the M80ti’s, M60ti’s, and M50ti’s--depending on the particulars of room size, start by selecting the "Large" setting on your receiver for the left and right main speakers, and "Small" for the center and surround channels. With these settings, and the subwoofer set to "On," most receivers will route full-range sound, including deep bass, to the main left and right speakers, and bass below 80 Hz to the "Sub Out" jack on the rear panel of the receiver. (Some rooms may benefit from smoother bass by getting deep bass from three room locations--the sub plus the main left and right speakers--rather than a single subwoofer.) If running your left and right fronts on "Large" produces too much bass output, change the settings for the mains to "Small." You can also experiment with crossover frequencies, raising the center-channel crossover frequency to 120 Hz if you find that results in smoother dialog sound with less coloration. But 80 Hz is a generally desirable crossover frequency in most applications.'

Here's the entire article... Reciever and Subwoofer Crossover Setup

I am using two subs with my 80's set to 'large' without any cancellations issues ... that I know of anyway.




I know little about PA Systems and much less about HT. It is pretty common knowledge and discussion where it is highly likely that 2 subs apart can have cancelling effects.(And I believe especially in the sweet spot.) I have NOT experienced this with my PA System.

Here is my referrence for PA talk http://disc.yourwebapps.com/Indices/22769.html

I will probably not try the large setting myself because of the close proximity of the M80's to the walls. I don't want any boominess.

Re: EP350 or EP400?
BoB/335 #244154 02/01/09 06:56 PM
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Good lord, it hurts nothing to try.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: EP350 or EP400?
Ken.C #244155 02/01/09 06:57 PM
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 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Bob, remember that he was running his M80s on large, which means they were producing frequencies down to about 30Hz--well into sub territory. I'm not sure why moving the sub didn't fix this either, but I don't know the particulars of his room, and I'm not an audio engineer.



I thought he had the same problem whether the mains were set to large or small. I will have to go back and read through the posts.

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