Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Help! I think I need more power.

That’s the big problem I’m trying to figure out is outside of a reviewers measurements how to determine what the real power going to all the channels is. My Denon 2807 is rated at 110x7 and I can play 2ch music up to 105dB without a problem, however in a demanding multi channel scene it starts clipping/distorting way below that.

So I need to know for sure how much say a 120 watt Denon can really deliver to 7 or 4 channels. 7 if I used it stand alone, and 4 if I used it for the just surrounds/backs. Above 120 watts the price really starts going up fast.

OTOH if I do end up getting the Outlaw 997 then I’m going to need amplification for all 7 channels.



Good to know. I’ve checked out the Behringer A500 mentioned by fred and it looks promising. But now I need to start figuring out what other specs. in an amp are important. For instance what are good numbers for S/N ratio, crosstalk, frequency response, THD+N and anything else I‘m leaving out. Also in which direction are those numbers better and worse. I’m assuming smaller is better for the ones I mentioned. Plus, is there a sort of cut of were a better or worse number isn’t really noticeable. And how does the amp design A/B etc… effect it’s performance in various roles. I guess what I’m saying is I really need a good primer on amps but have yet to find one.

Basically I don’t want to pay for a bunch of power I don’t need while ignoring other factors that may be more important to me in the amps performance.

Thanks for bearing with me on this guys, I’m usually not this dense.

I would look at the numbers on quality amps - Lexicon, Krell, Bryston, etc., and try to get as close to those as you can. For S/N, you want the number higher, for distortion numbers, you want them lower. On pro amps, they worry more about 2 ohm suitability, bridging, crossovers, and power than the audiophile sector. But you can find all the information need to make a good decision. The QSC website has some good information on amp design and power, and their forum is run by real techs - just don't expect a HT tech.

Lavender screen of death!

Ok, more like lavender screen of not to healthy. Looks like my Denon is having more issues so it’s a good thing I’m looking to upgrade. Seems to be an HDMI handshake issue that was never there before. Turn everything on and the screen is all lavender with any HDMI output from the receiver to the TV. VGA from the PCs works fine and HDMI direct from the OPPO works fine. It’s happened a couple time in the last weeks but this time turning it off and back on wasn't helping. Changing between inputs on the TV finally got them talking again.

I’d like to see the Sherwood R-972 and the Outlaw 997 out soon so I could read some reviews.

Likely still looking for more power.

I think Charles has or had an Integra receiver so I’m wondering if anyone is using one with there Axioms. A local installer I’m talking with can get me a very nice deal (authorized dealer) on and Integra DTR-8.9. Main reason I’m upgrading is the new audio formats not the power but I didn’t see the point in starting another thread.

The DTR-8.9 should have all the power I need (unless I get upgradeitis). I specifically don’t want Dolby PLIIz. I already think PLIIx is a waste and don’t want to be spending time tinkering with PLIIz since I if I have it I know I will.

I’ve given up on the Sherwood Newcastle and the Outlaw. Maybe next upgrade Trinnov will be in the picture but I can’t see getting either of those with all the problems they’ve had and still seem to be having.

So any thoughts on the Integra 8.9 for running M80s?

It looks to me like it will work fine. I don't have a local dealer, or I would have had the firmware updated on my processor. I probably won't get around to sending it in until I'm giving it to my dad (after my next upgrade). That's the major inconvenience. It would be nice if the updates could be done via USB and without any hoopla. However, since you have a local dealer and can get a good deal, I guess it just comes down to how good of a deal you're getting. Hopefully someone will have experience with that specific model.

Dean, the 8.9 should be excellent for you if those are the features that you're looking for. Depending on how "nice" the deal is though, consider that the nearly identical Onkyo 876 can be had for around $900 a factory refurb.

It was one of their show room demos which they are clearing out both for the new models and a redesign of their showroom. The deal is $1,200 sold as new with full warranty. If it requires warranty work they will pick it up and handle it while loaning me a receiver until it gets back. They will also calibrate my picture.

I will look into the Onkyo but I’m a little leery of getting another factory referb like my current Denon since it only came with a 90 day warranty, not that it hasn’t worked fine (except perhaps for Audyssey).

Thanks,
Dean

If I may add to some of the questions that Dean mentioned re. Pro Amps specs. What is considered to be a desirable slew rate vs a poor one, is a lower/higher number better/worse?

I've been checking out a number of Pro Amps and I'm starting to believe that many of them are coming out of a single(huge) factory in China as they are virtually the same except for the face plates, including some of the "expensive" ones.

If you look at some of the amp porn over on avs you will see the internals are different. It is quite clear that a number of the newer amps are clones of designs from more established companies like Crest or QSC.

The EP series is a clone of Some QSC amp. The Marathon 5050 looks identical in layout to one of the Crest Amps.

I read on one of the forums(AVS?) that only the digital amps by QSC are still made in the US, the rest are made offshore. I'm quite sure that many amp companies are subbing their work to a common denominator offshore and perhaps they have to make a few minor internal changes to skirt whatever laws apply. It was actually stated on some forums that Behringer, Tapco and QSC(GX series?) were made in the same plant, right next to each other. I've also run across a number of other amps with "unknown names" that look and spec so similar to these that it makes you wonder(sometimes they hardly give you any specs at all, LOL). I guess it doesn't really matter where they're made as long as the company(Behr, Mackie, QSC ect) stands behind them.