Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater EP175 big enough?

Since you already have QS8's for the sides, you would be best to use QS8's for your rears too. The 8's, imo, offer much more speaker for not much more $$ compared to the 4's, but that's entirely up to you. Your room is similar in size to my room, I don't think I'd go with one of the "M" speakers as rears, you are too close to them imo.

Well, I just spent about 15 minutes downstairs in my room checking out different options. I held up both my QS8's, one on the side wall, and one on the back where it would go. They are less than 3' apart. I just can't see a huge gain with them being in such close proximity.

In hindsight it was kind of dumb to offset the door which messes up the 6 and 7 channel placement, but I thought it would look odd to put it right in the middle of the back wall, plus I would have less usable space because of all the door swing.

So... What I think would be a very good solution is to buy a single QS8, and do a 6.1 setup. The wall is still open to run the wire and it would be cake to buy another and switch to 7.1 if I ever feel the need.

There is only 360 cubic feet behind the couch, I just cannot see three QS8's having any problem at all filling that.

I assume the Denon would have no problems downmixing 7.1 content to get to 6.1. I checked out the manual and it says there is an option for single rear surround, where it mixes both rear channel info into the one.

Tater, do you really feel you need rear speakers in that size of room? as I mentioned, my room is virtually the same size as yours(19x13x8) and to me, I'm not feeling I need the rears...perhaps if the room were 3-4 ft longer I'd consider it. A single rear in the centre might be ok, but imo 7.1 could use more space.

For sure run the wires both for 6.1 and 7.1 since the cost will be minimal compared to everything you’re doing.

I’m with Adrian that rear speakers just may not be worth the cost/effort. Have you run a 5.1 system with the QS8s with the setup you have now? If not give it a chance before committing to 6/7.1. In my 21 x 13.5 x 8-12vaulted room I’ve switched back to 5.1 for now. I have no dedicated 7.1 sources so everything is DPLIIx and find no improvement using 7.1 over 5.1 for movies or music, and 7.1 actually makes most directional cues in games sound much worse.

Now I do have about 7 feet behind my seats and place my surrounds further back than most which probably allows for a better rear soundstage to develop from the surrounds than 4 feet would.

Problem you might encounter with 6.1 that close is that “rear” sounds may seem to those sitting on the left/right of center to be coming from the side and not the rear. So 7.1 may actually work better since it will spread the rear sound source out across the back. Maybe someone with a similar setup will chime in with real experience. Even then the only way to know if it will work for you is to give it a try. You can always order a couple rears try them out and ship them back if you decide it’s not worth it.

Two QS8s will have no problem filling the space behind you with more sound than you will want. IMO your best bet is to start out with 5.1 and if possible experiment with the surround’s positions. You may find you really don’t need 7.1 right now and later when more discrete 7.1 material becomes available if you’ve pre-wired you can easily upgrade.

Your Denon should have no problem delivering 6.1 from 7.1, 5.1, 3.0...

Tater, your 4' distance from the back wall can be considered marginal for getting benefits from back surround speakers(I often say at least 4' is okay, but this isn't something that can stated with precision). The scarcity of material with discrete 7-channel content isn't necessarily a decisive factor. Modes such as DPLIIx expand ambient content in two channel material(present in varying amounts)in to different signals to left and right back surrounds(one center back surround doesn't do the same thing)and also expand the discrete side surround material in 5.1 material to the back surrounds(leaving the front channels untouched, since there's already surround material in the side channels).

If back surrounds are used in a 7.1 setup the side surrounds are best placed directly to the side of the listening position, to give the best side effect(not extremely critical, especially with QSs). If there're no actual back surround speakers used, the side surrounds might be better placed a couple feet farther back to lend a bit of a phantom back surround effect.

John - how does DPLIIx pull the rear channels from a 2.0 recording. Does it pull the ambient sound from the L/R channel and feed it to the L/R surround and then take whatever is the same in those surround channels and send it to the rears? I ask because even on 2.0 sources there is sound coming from the rear speakers when I use them but have never been sure how it processed this.

Dean, detected out-of-phase surround ambience material which is entirely in the left front channel is sent to the left side surround only. That material which is also present to a smaller extent in the right front channel is sent mostly to the left back surround so that it images in the left rear. That ambient material which is equally present in the left and right front channels is sent equally to the left and right back surrounds so that it images in the back center. Similar analysis starting with the right front channel, of course. The concept is to theoretically get a transition of sound arrival directions more closely matching the recording venue.

Thanks now it makes more sense why games often have nothing coming from the rears despite intense directional pans from the surrounds.

One more question…how then do they derive the height channel for 9.1?

As far as I know that hasn't been a detailed description of how the height information is derived. It would clearly have to be sound that's out-of-phase with the direct sound and is non-directional, but how stuff better heard from above is separated from back surround, for example, isn't clear.

You see, this is why a board like this is so valuable. Everywhere you look, it's 7.1 this, 7.2 that... Only on a board like this can you get real world experience and input from people that have done it.

No, I have not tried my setup yet as I am still building the room. I just really don't like doing things half-heartedly knowing there is something "better" out there, but hearing people who have done it tell you it's not worth it really means something.

I ran the wire for the rear centre tonight, but I think I am going to do what you guys are saying (repeatedly), and that's to move the sides back a foot, and run the 5.1. When Grunt said 7.1 isn't very good for gaming.. That strikes a chord because you need to hear properly for first person shooters, which I love to play. I guess it only makes sense to try what I have first, I have nothing to lose.

I am going to order a sub tomorrow, 95% sure on it, but I'll report back once I order. I guess that is what this thread is all about after all.