Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions From HT Shack a question maybe for Ian or Alan

Right. Non technical answer:

I listened to Paradigm Studio 7s. Not so good for the price. I listened to the Studio line including the 20,40 and 60. Damn that sounds good, but I don't have that kind of cash.

I listened to Axioms M22 M60 and M80 with and without subs. Damn that sounds good AND I can afford it!!

You can burry yourself in the technical details (and HTshack is a technical place more so than here), or you can listen to a bunch of speakers and make your own decision.

By the way, you will find that as you burry yourself in the technical details (being a geek at heart I love that sort of stuff) and start to read stuff by designers, there are many many ways to build a very good speaker.

Tru dat. Also, the Monitor 9's and 11's are much better than the Monitor 7's(you meant Monitor 7s not "Studio" 7s right Fred?) imo. Better range esp on the low end, 7's sounded a bit thin.

Yes, Monitor 7.

I posted the NRC graph for the VP150 when "he who's name shall not be mentioned" kept harping about it. (un)Amazingly, he is now harping about the "lack of NRC testing" of the 150 on other forums, even after seeing my post months ago...my post is amongst the links that Dean provided. Anyway, here it is again for anyone who either missed it or wishes to see it, the graph is available when you click "compare all center channels".

NRC graph of the VP150.

Dean, that was a very thoughtful and comprehensive response. Thank you for compiling the existing Axiom responses on the issue.

Troyd, I don't understand exactly what you were seeking. Grunt provided Axiom staff responses to the issue you raised. Nobody jumped on you. I don't think anybody is eager to engage known malcontents on other forums.

Sorry if it seemed that way; I don't think that was anyone's intention. It's just that the question does come up on a regular basis, and the context is usually a variant of "I haven't listened to <speaker X> but it's obvious that they will suck because of comb filtering".

Comb filtering is always a factor when you have two or more drivers reproducing the same frequencies, but the general consensus is that the real-world impact in a typical listening room with typical content is quite small.

There are always exceptions, of course -- take any system with a D'Appolito configured center speaker (WTW), put on Nursery Cryme (Genesis), listen to Hackett's guitar on Fountain of Salmacis and walk around the room. You'll hear an obvious "wah wah" change in timbre as you move laterally. Other than that one track, however, I haven't really noticed comb filtering effects at all.

The effect is not restricted to speakers with multiple drivers for the same frequency range, of course -- it is an issue at the crossover points of every speaker. The question is how significant the impact is relative to all of the other factors that contribute to overall response.

EDIT - I took a quick look at the linked thread. I loved the comment one poster made - that "they felt their stacked Advents sounded really good but other people said that was not possible because of their configuration". I thought of hummingbirds.

Thank you!

I’m guessing Mark is right that he took Randy’s comment out of context thinking it was directed at him, but then he whips out the shotgun and unloads at everybody in the forum and even Alan (“his little reply above”) who was only being quoted.

I’m always amused at multi-paragraph (edited) impassioned posts considering the time it takes to create them. People need to realize they are on the fast track to a heart attack if they let something said in an internet forum get to them that much, then stick with them long enough to generate such a post and probably continue to hold a grudge afterward.

Back in the stone ages (before the internet) I don’t remember ever knowing someone who was like that. I probably avoided them instinctively. It’s interesting how much more variety of human nature the internet exposes you to since you cant get a “read” on someone based on non-verbal queues to know whom to engage and whom to avoid.

Cheers,
Dean

P.S. Also want to reiterate how well I thought the Home Theater Shack members handled the topic (SS not withstanding, but then he‘s also a member here ).

you know what, after re-reading I owe an apology to all.

Yeh, there actually wasn't a question .... well yes there was in the Topic heading. But, that was my lack of communications.

I just stumbled opon that section in another forum. and the reply was not in that thread, so yeh thanks grunt for your reasearch and posting.

I have owend Axiom M80's v1 though and a VP150 and QS8's. I was for the most part happy with them. I am just trying to figure out "if " this time there maybe a speaker that maybe worth that extra $500. BUt, M80's from $1400 to $2500 shipped is a price point I like. Axiom are my reference speaker. I am undecided wheather to go with a F/O or HG Cherry or the VaSSallo. I like Paradigm's Studio 60/100's but further pricing has placed that at $7500 for the 7 speaker setup. Not, what I am looking to spend. I don't have a wife or significant other, but I can only imagine what would be said or done if I did. I think $5000 is my price point plus andother $200 - $3000 for sub(s) and between Energy RF70 and Axiom is about it. Not liking Monitor Audio too much, maybe it's because my brother almighty had them and sold them and bought these entry level pieces of crap for $1200 and told people they sounded as good as my Axioms at qurater of the cost. Told him to goto the Dr and get that clump of shit affecting his hearing remove then goto a hearing specialist case something must be effecting his hearing. So, no I will not no matter how good they are own something he had or has.

Anyways, I have not heard a M80 v2 the thing I really want to get away from is that the M80 and VP150 was a big difference in timbere match. Or maybe I am not hearing it right. What I hear is if I had 3 M80's acroos the front and do the pink noise test the all sound the same, same volumn, same tone. But, and as expected there is a difference , but maybe it is not that important as I am putting it out to be.
I really loved the Axiom 80's however, I wish I could order them as a say &.5" woofer just for a tad more bottom end in the music video's and or when I listen to music. I bypass my sub then. also maybe one tweeter not two I find it just a tad too harsh/Bright. No I have heard the 60's and no don't want them. can and is it possible without hurting the drivers to just unhook one tweeter, just to see the difference. or at that has anyone tried that ?

I know Axiom has over 30 years of research and involved with the NCR etc, but this is how they hear things and we all like sound a little rdifferent maybe one tweeter would take away from the top end and maybe then the bottom end will come out a little more. Does this make sence. I want a M80 with just a little more bottom, heavier bottom and a little less on the highs. I know that with a bigger woofer that some tightness will not be there and yes I like that part of the system but, maybe a 7.5 and a 6.5 woofers and I will have the bottom.

maybe I should try a DIY someday. Another thing, I think if not already Axiom should venture into a SUB that runs like four 10 drivers in a V shape array. Four 10's would be tighter and move more air than a 12". can you imagine. Have a dual amp system One amp would power driver 1 and 3, amp 2 would power 2 and 4.


Anyways, long winded but, sorry for the harsh words grunt, sirquack.

Hi troyd, thanks for coming back and setting things straight. I also find a timbre difference between the M80s and VP150 but not everyone does. I’ve come to the conclusion some people are just more sensitive to timbre differences than others. Also, it’s perfectly natural for identical speakers to sound very different in timbre based on location especially playing pink noise. If I play pink noise through my L/C/R M80s the center sounds very different from my L/R mains. This is due to differences in location and how reflections from nearby objects effect the timbre. However, I don’t notice the difference in the M80s with program material only pink noise.

Yes you can disconnect one tweeter and believe some people have tried that however it sounds to me like you would be better served by trying out some more forgiving speaker brands. IMO the biggest strength and weakness of Axioms at the same time is their accuracy. If there are harsh highs on the program material the Axioms will let you hear them. There are other brands that take into account that most recording people listen to are mastered poorly and design their speakers accordingly. Neither Paradigm nor Axiom do this.

What type of music aren’t the M80s giving you good enough bass on. I listen to lots of GOA Trance, EBM, etc… and get awesome bass. Now they don’t give the deep thump of a kettle drum the same way as my EP500 but for 95% or more of my music they go plenty deep enough.

I’m guessing you’ve had your Axioms for some time but I still have to ask this just in case if for no other reason than other people reading this may find themselves in a similar situation. As far as getting a little less top end and a little more bottom end from the M80s have you tried using the tone controls? Also, have you run Audyssey? AFAIK the standard Audyssey curve rolls off the top end since many people listening to poor recordings tend to prefer that. Also speaker positioning can have a huge impact on how they sound especially when in proximity to other objects.

You can also contact Axiom and get resistors to put in before the tweeters that will attenuate the highs a bit.