Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Unpowered Subwoofer for Music

As I've indicated in my other posts, I'm in the process of defining a music listening room. The electronics I'm considering are the upcoming Arcam AVR 300, which is a 7x100 channel receiver. If one is running a 5.1 system, two of the channels can be combined to bi-amp the speakers, which I understand is a good thing. I have been paying attention to Alans replies to me, and this give me the options of starting with high quality stereo, but allow me to upgrade to surround audio later without losing anything-a nice 'eat my cake and have it too'.

Having three free high quality amp channels opens up some interesting subwoofer possiblities. From what I've been reading, two subs are preferable for the best music reproduction, but rather expensive. However, I could get 2 unpowered subs for about the same money as one high quality powered one, such as the REL Strata, to explore that option.

Anyone ever explored this? HSU makes the unpowered TN-1220HO which claims a FR of +/- 1db from 18-100 HZ, which should be quite musical. I could have two of these for about a grand. Of course, I could also have 2 VTF-2's for about the same price, and I'm not sure that flat to 1 db vs. flat to 2 db would make any practical difference in my enjoyment of the music.

Any ideas for subwoofers for a music only system?

EAR,
I do not know how you are quantifying "high quality" sub vs. another although it sounds to me like you are equating $ to quality.
If anything i've come to know about audio, that equation does not hold true so be wary of thinking one higher priced sub will be better than a lower priced one.

That being said, even for music, i do not like using a sub at all. I have never found any subs to be 'musical' and i only use mine for notes below 50Hz (the approximate crossover setting at present). I much prefer the tight, more accurate bass reproduction from the smaller 6.5" drivers of my M60s but of course, they cannot hit the low notes required by organ music. I find anything above 50-70Hz played by a larger subwoofer driver sounds far more muddled and notes get meshed together. Out of the subs i've heard to date, the Axiom EP350 was the most accurate sounding but to be fair, i have not yet head the SVS or Hsu offerings. Hopefully soon SVS will be on that list.

Hi,

Sorry to give that impression, I like to follow the detail in a ContraBass line in a good jazz recording, or be able to hear the timbre differences between the drums in a Taiko recording... for example. This requires tight accurate bass.

A number of years ago, I had one of the original Cambridge Soundworks SubWoofer II's, it was an acoustic suspension eight inch driver, driven by a moderate amp (either 75 or 100 watts). It was designed before HT became popular, and was extremely musical. It matched with my AR speakers seamlessly, so when I was listening to music, one was simply unaware that the bass was being augemented, unless one flipped the subs power switch, then the soundstage would completely collapse quite dramaticly. Unfortunatlely, it wasn't 'slamming' and was not appropraite in any way for HT, so they no longer make it. But, I've heard what a musical sub can do!!

I'm sorry I gave the impression that I equate money with quality, I'm looking hard at the HSU products and am here at the Axiom forum, so that can't be entirely true. Due to some fortunate circumstances, I can set up a system optimized for listening to music with fewer financial restraints than I'm used to- the purpose of my posting here is to try to get an idea of 'bang for buck', and the best 'no compromise' system that would make sense, and not just be buying expensive 'name' speakers for the heck of it- that is, I'd really like to get $20,000 worth of audio performance for .. oh say.. under $5,000. If that makes any sense.

EAR, you might be interested to see this poll i posted some time ago.

Great poll! I completely agree with your premise, that there is "point of absurdity", and one of the things I'm trying to do with these online conversations, is to get some ideas of where that might be. I've already figured that $100,000 for a pair of stereo speakers is probably well past that line!

I've also been auditioning stuff, and have heard some fairly amazing things, like having the rear wall fall away and the soundstage more than double in size and reach out to envelop me... listening to 2 channel stereo only! SO much so, that I accused the sales dude of pulling a fast one, and I got up and walked over to the surround speakers, nope, they were off! THAT'S what I want. BTw- that was with an Arcam AVR 200 receiver driving Linn Ninka speakers- though there were other things about the linns I didn't like.

I've not been lucky enough to hear the Hsu 1220HO, but I know Curtis has, and once he heard them, they instantly became his "dream" sub. I'm sure a pair of them would work extemely well. Though you'd need to check with Dr. Hsu if powering them with your receiver's built-in amps is recommended.

Good luck, you lucky dog!

I've heard a pair of those subs as well. They were standing right next to each other in the corner of the room, powered by external amps. Their ability to truly pressurize the room was astounding. You know when you're on the freeway (Not a freeway in LA, as you need to be moving...) and you roll down only one window, how the air rushes in and causes fluctuating pressure? Well, on one particular 17Hz organ note, that's what the room felt like. It's like the air turned to liquid and was pushing against all my internal organs. WOW.

I would highly recommend purchasing dedicated amps for those baddies. I don't think any receiver's amp could really do them justice.

Hi,

I emailed Dr. Hsu, and to my surprise, he replied, and has been extremely helpful. No, my amp won't power them. They are designed with music in mind. He sells a package of two with the 500 watt amp for under $1,700- which is just about what I'd pay for a REL Storm III.... looks like a true 'no brainer'.

{wipes puddled drool off keyboard}

Yep. That sounds like that'll work.

When is the Forum Member Listening Party? I'll bring thyme-crusted pork tenderloin in gorgonzola cream sauce, if that would help.

I heard a Rel once. It blew me away when playing a track from Dead Can Dance. Truly pressurized the room. Quite an impressive experience. Then I threw in a Prince CD. Prince is far from fast techno...but that poor little (err...BIG) Rel couldn't keep up. Slow, sloppy bass. That bad boy cost like $3000!

The Hsu's do indeed seem like no brainers if you've got the room for them.