Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590

Dan's got the answers this week!

It's always a good idea to experiment with placement - including aiming. However, if you're going to mount a big speaker like that above your screen (whether a vertical M80 or a horizontal VP180), be prepared to do some engineering (i.e. shelf with chains or something). Those speakers are too deep and too heavy for traditional wall brackets.

I have heard the VP180 and had a CC690 lined up to listen to at a local dealer but unfortunately I couldn't make it down there; I hope to listen to one in the next couple of weeks.

Congressman, a vertical M80 would be ideal for the center channel, but you're using a good sub, and an M22 or even M2 would serve very satisfactorily and be easier to place.

Senator - I agree with JohnK. Even the small M2 in my experience performs better than the VP-150.

Ha, I like that idea. My father did carpentry for much of his life, so I will have to see what we can team up to create (or more accurately, what he can think up and I can help make).

I'm trying to prepare my wife for the long term plan (so she can at least know that somewhere down the line at least the speaker lust list has an end) so I am wish-listing the dream setup (I find that it gives me something to work toward as well). I love the two center channel speaker idea and was actually thinking about starting with the VP 180 horizontally under the screen, angled slightly up to the ear at seated positions and eventually adding an M80, placed it vertically above the screen, angled slightly down toward the ear at the seated position. I would amp them for proper power and I thought that would solve any off-axis listening issues. (Plus, they are both about the same price).

In researching that option, I've found that some audio experts warn against dual center channels (the particular responses begin 18 responses down):
http://ask.audyssey.com/entries/208239-dipoles-bipoles-or-monopoles-for-surround-speakers

Thoughts?

Regarding center channels - I am not an expert, but like you I did a bunch of research which led me to switching out my VP150 for the M2. I believe that 2 center channel speakers are very doable (CatBrat has done it among others), but must be done in the correct configuration to avoid weird effects or interactions with each other. For example, 2 vertical center channels would not make sense placed beside each other as you are simply starting to create another horizontal array but in a non-controlled way and you start getting into all of those horizontal array issues again. However if the speakers are separated you should start to get away from those issues. So to my logic, the only way to have 2 center channels with ample separation is one above and one below the screen. From there you get into 2 verticals, 2 horizontals or a vertical and horizontal mix as your options. I personally have never heard dual centers, but having above and below screen seem to have worked for a few forum members at least.

Starting with a good horizontal (or vertical) center speaker and then trying options from there makes a lot of sense to me!

I've used my VP100 in/on-wall for a little over a year and always noticed a lack of off center dialog volume. Decided to try the M2. This solved the off center volume problem, but introduced (to my ears and room condition) male vocals lacking in the lower end, more-so than just the VP100. So now I have the M2 above the screen and the VP100 under. Next week, I should have a VP150 in/on-wall that I ordered to replace the VP100. I got a good price on the auction so, why not? But, I don't know how this will change things. I do like the M2 + horizontal better than just one or the other. Better overall sound. I'll have 7 tweeters up front. Now with 6 it is a bit too bright for music, but cymbals really sound good. It also makes the upper end of other instruments, such as piano sound more realistic.

I'm thinking with the M2 above the screen and the VP150 below the screen that I'll have the following condition. The M2 plays a couple of db lower than M22. The VP150 plays a couple of db higher than M22. After Pioneer's MCACC calibration, It'll probably lower the over-all volume of the center pair because of the VP150's higher volume. This may cause the M2 to be mostly in-audible. Since they are on the same channel I can't turn the VP150 down without installing some sort of external volume control. But the M2 would come into play more for off-axis listening in this case.

CatBrat without knowing what you define as "lacking in the lower end" you might want to try a vertical M3 as a center for comparison. The M3's exhibit "fat" characteristics to the lower registers of male vocals. You might like that, but I find it unnatural.

Yes, I've thought of that. Using an M3 instead. It'll have to wait for another day when I can afford to order a single M3 to try it out.

Now, if Axiom Audio would send me one to try out, I'd be willing to pay postage both ways.... Hint, hint.