Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions...

Mad, I only have a moment but want to throw one thing out there:

Buy your speakers for long-term; they're likely going to be amazing you 20 years from now.

Electronics, on the other hand, are changing constantly. I, too, got into this at a young age.... though I',m pushing 50 to your 30. But receivers USED to be something that you could hold onto for 10-15 years. Now, the standards and codecs are changing much more quickly.

I see your point about wanting to buy equipment that will work in a future theater of a purchased home, but I think you MAY wish to consider buying a minimum receiver with the features you want (yes, make sure it has pre-outs) because there's a good possibility that if you buy a house, build a theater and then want to equip it perfectly, there will be a "better" receiver or pre-pro that you might want at that time.

I have to admit, being a bit old-school, that I find it disheartening that I want to replace my $1200 receiver that I just bought a few years ago! (not enough HDMIs, no 3-D, etc.).

The good news is that the Rotel amp should add capability to whatever receiver you buy now.....or ten years from now.

I agree with Mark. Speakers will far outlast your electronics. My HT is only 3-4 years old and was built from scratch with all new equipment, but I was tempted by Jay's (JakeWash) Best Buy link. Not thinking of changing my speakers at all, except for adding an EP800 , but I would like some of the updated features in the new AVR's even though mine is going strong!

I understand about WAF and space for the VP180 or VP160, just wanted to point out the vertical center option to you as I don't think most people when purchasing are aware of or consider it seriously. I know I had never even heard of the concept when I 1st bought my Axioms. Center channels were horizontally arrayed and that's all there was to it, never considered there was an alternative.

BTW, the QS8's make for an incredible surround experience.

I hope you get to place that order soon!

I've been a bigger fan of the Pioneers and MCACC than most around here. I had a Pioneer Elite and got used to it first. Then decided to upgrade to a Denon3312ci. I've never got the sound the way I like it using Audyssey. Audyssey is not as tweakable as MCACC. If you've grown used to having an equalizer, MCACC might be the better way to go. They both have an equalizer that you can tweak manually. The difference is with Audyssey, you have to turn the benefits of Audyssey off before you can use the manually adjustable EQ, with MCACC, you can leave the MCACC turned on and adjust away. All a matter of preference, of course. I seemed to have more runaway bass with the Pioneer creating bass heavy spots near the corners of the room. I have a Pioneer SC-67 on a delivery truck headed my way. I'll have it by the end of next week. Then I can a/b test the Denon vs Pioneer all I want. It might even surprise me an find I like the Denon better. Won't know until a couple of weeks from now.

If you had kept that tube TV like I told you to, you wouldn't have that problem now would you.

On subs:

PB13 ultra +- 3db 19-150 Hz., $2,200 to your door
EP800 +- 1db 13-150 Hz., $2400 to your door

On performance, I'd say the EP800 wins hands down. Size is another story, but if I had that kind of money to spend on a sub, I would go for the EP800.

Edit: Oops, got the price wrong on the PB13 ultra, its 2,000 I would still spend the extra on an EP800 if I was going to spend in that range. 'To your door' in Canada is probably a bit more.

Very good replies from everyone,

Mark: What you said makes complete sense. I never looked at it like that. I definitely won't be acquiring another sub(so I don't need a .2) for awhile, and I won't be acquiring extra surrounds for awhile either. When I have my own home, I'll begin to research for a good a projector and screen, lighting and the like. That will be when I start running a 7.2 system.

That is at least 5 years away and like you say, that will be the time to buy what's hot and new on the market.

So on that note, all I really need for a receiver is:

1) 5.1
2) hdmi, which is a given
3) Audyssey or MCACC
4) pre outs
5) support for all the good formats/codecs
6) a bonus would be support for .flac files

Looking around this morning online, it seems tough to find something cheap with pre outs. The Onkyo NR717 seems to be my best bet so far. If anyone can give me a few more links with all the above features, it would be very helpful

cb919: I would have never thought about a vertical center unless you brought it. I would love to experiment with that and hear the difference in the front soundstage. On your comment about the QS8's; I'm very excited. Besides an old bose system I owned, I've never owned dedicated surrounds. Everything I've ever used for surrounds wasn't designed to be a surround and is at least 15 years old. I'm sure the technology for surrounds has taken quite a leap in that time.

My father has went ape shit with a brand new Cerwin Vega system. He has the 2 xls215's for mains but what I found overkill is he bought 2 cmx210's for rears. He also bought 2 XLS 12S subwoofers. He's got one of their biggest center channels, don't remember the model. Bought the Pioneer SC-67 receiver.

Is having a tower speaker beneficial in anyway for a rear surround speaker.

He's got all this jammed into a tiny square living room. lol he's broken my mom's china, detatched siding on the outside of the home, and even popped the big windows out of their seals. lol it's ridiculous, but awesome.

Cat: I would love to hear your comparisons in a few weeks See, I like the idea to be able to "tweak". I enjoy messing around with stuff like that. On that note, someone else mentioned that with MCACC you can't adjust sub levels and that, that adjustment is most important in some cases. What's your take on this? Right now, I'm leaning towards MCACC because I don't like the "take it or leave it" concept of Audyssey.

fred: Thanks for your take on the subs. The PB13-ultra seems like such a heavy hitter, built like a tank. I like that But the EP800 seems great too, made in canada(supporting canadian jobs is important to me), will match the rest of the system and when I hear people like yourself say "on performance, it wins hands down"...I know I will be VERY happy with it. Thank you

one a side note, Sonicboomaudio said with all taxes and shipping, to my door it would be $2266 for the pb13-ultra

This is bad...I could be working myself up for EXTREME disappointment. lol

I hope not. I find out by the end of this coming week if I got the new job. It's looking pretty good from what I've heard from sources close to the hiring process. Other people who they didn't want have already received their rejection letters. I have not. And they have 10 positions to fill and their were only 16 interviews.

If I got the job, the pension payout from old job is certain. This purchase is certain if I get the job

Crossing my fingers

Here's an interesting thread I found regarding Audyssey VS MCACC

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1050097/official-denon-avr-1909-789-thread/3180#post_15252779

Welcome Mad, a couple of things worth considering would be if you were going with either of the standard finishes, it would be more economical to purchase B stock for your set up. This is what I chose to do for my so to be system . I inquired with Noreen at Axiom, about the general defects or flaws which is typically associated with B stock speakers. Noreen stated to me that more times than not, it's either visible excess glue about the drivers, or nicks or scratches on the drivers themselves. These are very small blemishes that can't be detected from greater than four feet away with the grilles off.

In my case I was debating between a projector, or a Mitsubishi 92" screen in my family room. Funds and future projector technology will make me wait before I go down that path, so the 92" is in my immediate plans. If I had gone with the projector though, I was going to go with dual M22's as my center channel. As cb919 has stated, some lean towards a vertical over a horizontal if possible. You have a capable power amp which would allow you to wire in series using only one channel. When it comes to audio able sounds, these bookshelf speakers are sup positively giant for their size. It would be possible to toe them out a bit for some great in room dispersion. You won't get a great deal of bass from this center channel set up, but in my option it won't be missed. Let the sub or subs do the heavy lifting. The M22's will then be responsible for clean, clear, crisp dialog which it can easily handle.

This option may or may not work for you in your space though. The price for two M22's would be much less than purchasing lets say a VP-180. This along with the first option, would save you several hundreds of dollars. Which you could then pocket, or might be used for that second sub you might be wanting. Any way you chose to go I believe you have gotten some great advice here on this thread. Good luck and good listening.

If dual M22s won't fit, then dual M2s just might.

Virtually the same sonic signature as the M22s & two of them would be more than adequate output wise...

TAM