Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Just demo-ed m60s: OK but need sub! What now?

2 comments.

I think you made a mistake when you listened to it with a sub in the first place. It tainted your opinion of the speaker. It's like having apple pie a la mode, and then saying "I thought that I liked apple pie for desert, but it just wasn't satisfying, I'm not going to buy any more apple pie". The minute you heard the system with the sub enabled, everything else from that point on was "missing" something with it disabled. Well of course it was. If you listened to the sub by itself, you wouldn't worry about the "missing" top end of the sub, right? The REAL question about the bass in a non-sub speaker is "does the bass guitar sound like a real bass guitar at a volume proportional to the volume of the other instruments". The same applies to the other low end instruments, like drums. Whether its on stage, in the studio, or in your living room, the purpose of the main speakers is not to pound you in the chest with bass. That is always the job of the subwoofer. The mains are supposed to put sufficient volume in the mid - upper bass region to fill in between the midrange speakers and the subwoofers. Just food for thought.

Second point. You can adjust the position of M60s in such a way that the room surfaces reinforce the bass response. In effect, you can get a little extra bass out of them by moving them just a little closer to the wall. 1/4" to 1/2" makes a big difference in my room. If you position them "incorrectly", you can enhance the bass a touch.

In addition to Michael A's comments above you may wish to contact the guy with the M60s to see if he had them set to "small" on his receiver. If so, when he turned off the sub the M60s may not have been receiving the full range of bass tones from the receiver.
I have never thought my M60s lacking in bass. One time, I went over to turn down the sub's volume knob because I thought I was hearing too much bass for a particular music recording - only to find that the sub had been switched off!

I am a new owner of the M60's and Velodyne DLS-4000($ 399 on sale now, maybe cheaper on the net). I am far from an audio expert, but I have no complaints, just the opposite. The Velodyne is cheaper than the Axiom subs, though not as pretty, maybe not the equivalent sound wise, have not heard the Axiom subs. Seems to match the M60s, VP150, and QS8s very nicely though. I use the LFE from my Yamaha 2400 and I set up using YPAO, so maybe the receiver is doing a lot of work for me.

I would say spend just $ 200 more and get what you want. Divide $ 200.00 by the number of years you plan to have the speakers. Report the "per year" number to your wife. Let me know if you are ever near Morristown, NJ you can have a listen.

We switched the front speakers over to large and turned off the sub. And while I agree that with most music, this is a great setup, I do enjoy the sub when listening to anything with a bass fiddle or music that takes advantage (to a distinct level) of those lower frequencies (Pink Floyd's P*U*L*S*E or Metallica's S&M for example).

Yet again, given rotipom's room/roommate considerations, volumes loud enough to take full advantage of the sub may not be attainable...(?)

^billy

rotipom,
You won't be moving to a smaller room in the future, so the M60's will be a good choice because of that.

You can't really crank anything up where you are, so a sub won't be of much use right now. The M22s aren't quite as robust on the lower end, so the M60s will be a good choice because of that.

In your example, you did not consider the cost of stands for the M22s. That closes the price gap to the M60s.

If you get the M22s, it appears that you may go for a less expensive sub and that may mean you will be disappointed later when you have a larger space that the sub won't be able to fill.

You do have the 2 chioces you mentioned above:
1) M60s now, good sub later
2) M22s now with STF-2 sub from HSU

As with Ravi and spiff, I like option 1 because it gets you to where you want to end up. Option 2, while it is cost-effective and will work, is a purchase that will cause you to spend more to upgrade later. And with option 2, will your really be able to pound a sub in your current situation anyhow?

I have the m22's and a HSU STF-2 and it absolutely rocks the house. Those 22's get loud enough for any sane listener without any distortion. It seems everyone is telling you to go for the m60's and save for a sub, but I know what you're feeling--you want great sound NOW! Trust me, the 22's + STF-2 will not disappoint you and should cost you $749-799 depending on whether HSU has a promotion or not. One guy said that 22's plus stands nearly equal the cost of the 60's....huh?!? Who the heck buys $400 speaker stands?!? I got mine for $40 and they're just fine. Another guy said you can place the 60's so that the angle to the walls reinforces the bass...yeah, kinda, but nothing near the clarity and depth of bass you'll get with a good sub.

Anyway, all that's to say is that if your budget is about $800, then the 22's plus a sub will make you very happy.

jtmccoy,
That is very comforting to hear. I plan on making the same purchase that you made over the summer.

*pulls hair* arrgghhh.

I am standing back for awhile to reevaluate the whole situation and think about this sum of money I am thinking of spending.

I am not getting anywhere with decisions and everytime I think I have, I get swept away by the tide again.
Its painful because I have returned the bookshelves I was auditioning before and I haven't been able to listen to any music for about a week now and it will be weeks before I can make that change.

I can see myself going with both the m22s AND the m60s at this point. But I do know that I have made one solid decision which jtmccoy had a point about, I want that thumping bass, feel free to knock it, but that's how I like it in a lot of the music I listen to, that any mere rearrangement of speakers won't satisfy.

So now it's a question of funds and how long I'm willing to wait. I do have other interests and things I want to save up for and frankly, I'm mentally exhausted!

Every post I've read of yours seems quite clear that the M22ti and a good sub is the way for you to go.

Rotipom,

I can also vouch for the M22 + good sub combo. I have my M22's paired with an SVS PB1 sub, and the combo rocks. You get the loud, clean mids and highs you'd expect from Axiom, with the thumping bass you'd expect from a good sub like SVS/HSU.