Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Hearing Things A six month long test of an Axiom Tower vs. ???

I don't know but I had my a$$ kicked a few times - but only when I needed it...

TAM

The first speakers have been ordered for the long term test: A pair of Martin Logan Electromotion ESL Electrostatic Hybrid speakers that sell for $2500 per pair, including shipping.

They can be seen here:

http://www.martinlogan.com/electromotion/em-esl.php

I've still never heard electrostatic speakers. One of these days I need to broaden my horizons.

CV - I heard a pair for about a half hour last week, and was impressed enough to order my own pair. Can't wait to get them!

For a quick update - The Martin Logans arrived today. The packaging was excellent, and the speakers remarkably easy to install - they only weigh about 40 pounds.

They are breaking in now - did some casual listening to Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms" for about a half an hour. Right now, I am just using an entry level Denon receiver as a 2 channel amp, so there isn't a lot to report.

The only listening report so far is they definitely are articulate, and the woofer section is pretty good.

I am also scheduled to visit Axiom next Thursday (April 30). I have business in the GTA on Wednesday and it seemed too good to pass up the chance to pay a visit.

Hopefully it will be warmer by then. I just watched it snow all night.

The drive up from Toronto is a nice one.

A quick update - The Martin Logans (ML's) are sounding pretty good. All processing in the Denon receiver is turned off, and it is just a two channel amp now.

The ML's are the first "dipole" style planar speaker we have had here, and comments one will see about ML's and Magnepans are starting to make more sense. Unlike traditional speakers, these speakers change a LOT just by moving one's listening position a little.

They are detailed, and musical to the point where I look forward to heading to the "man cave" for some relaxing listening.

Compared to the M1's (my product - a $175 bookshelf MTM monitor) and the ARX A5's ($400 each), the ML's are quite the step up. Of course, for $1250 each, they should be. The soundstaging is good, and microdynamics are as well. They definitely are not "boxy".

The current front end is a Denon DBP-1611UD player, and the receiver a Denon 1712. The receiver will soon be replaced with something more upscale - but not too crazy. This process is still not going to require someone spend huge bucks to drive reasonable priced speakers.

The likely end result will be a Marantz 6009 or 7008 receiver and a good 5 channel amp. With $1000 towers, the receiver would be used stand alone, with the $2500 towers, the amp added to the mix, in order to approximate what most people would do in the real world.

THE VISIT TO AXIOM has been confirmed - Ian has been quite gracious in his invite. We will be having a lot of discussions about all things audio. There are two things I admire about Ian when it comes to our hobby (ok, more than two things, but these two are pertinent to this test):

1. Ian never puts down competition. Regardless how much he is attacked, he just lets it go. It took yours truly a long time to learn this, and I wish I had done as Ian has from the first time I had a review thread in 2002.

2. Ian loves blind testing. Double blind is preferable, but even the type I do here is something he likes over the standard on line fan boy always picking his favorite.

When I do listening, I have someone put one speaker pair into the system. The room is easy to keep dark, and I just listen to the speakers not knowing which they are.

If Ian has a speaker in for a blind test, and some one ends up picking a competitor as the "winner", he just smiles, knowing this happens.

Back in my "first run" reviewing speakers, Axiom, if memory serves, "won" 5 and "lost" 3 blind tests against comparable speakers (in term of price).

I say "won" and "lost" because participants in these tests want a "tally". It is my experience that telling the listeners in such a test not to "keep score" is about as likely to work as is telling kids playing baseball not to keep score.

The kids keep score, even if the adults think they don't. As a funny coincidence, the kids are also more mature (as the participants) than are the adults (as the audience) .. much like the forum world.

Ever notice that the participants in a blind test are much more relaxed about the results than are those who are reading about the results?

I sincerely hope this small start back into testing speakers is useful for those who are patient enough to read all this stuff.

Look for things to get more involved after I come back from the Axiom visit. Thanks for reading, and as always, comments and suggestions are welcome.

Great post craig. Good to have you here:

I've often heard that these types of speakers are wonderful; however, I don't think that I'd want a speaker system that requires my head to be clamped in a vice to keep a coherent sound stage. When I listen or watch movies, I start sitting in the MLP, but often I end up horizontal as well & in different directions. I find that my conventional Axiom speakers don't really vary with all of my contortions. I think that I would find trying to stay rigidly in one place to enjoy the best sound would be fatiguing & probably annoying.

I've always found that the Axiom crew & customers are generally a class act & rarely ever mean-mouth any other brand. Couth & decorum is definitely lacking in many areas of this pastime that is exacerbated by the anonymity of the net.

As far as the results of blind testing, if I am the only one out of five testers that likes Speaker C the best, it doesn't matter to me that the other four preferred Speaker A. Subjectively, I still preferred Speaker C. So to me this type of 'scoring' (which then morphs into the ubiquitous 'shootout') is meaningless; however, I can see why it is done, largely for consumption by the herd. In the grand scheme of things, sales of Speaker A would probably benefit...

TAM

Tam - I do understand your concerns what happens with a "tally" of the speaker scores. One item I failed to mention is we require all "scores/notes" to be turned in before we identify the speakers in question.

To further ensure that everyone knows the test was done honestly, after the scores are posted, the listeners then get to go see which speakers were hooked up for the second round, after they turn in the notes, and before I see them, eliminating the possibility that shenanigans took place.

Where it gets really fun is when people who were not at the event go into another forum, and post half quotes while constructing all sorts of conspiracy theories about how the test was done.

Two years ago, we did a blind test between a DIY speaker and a commercially available complete "store bought" speaker.

The panel preferred the "store bought" speakers, including the gent who had built the DIY speakers.

SO ... I offered up that the guys could do additional listening anyway they wanted, which they did. They still preferred the "store bought" speakers.

A thread was opened on another forum in which it was stated that it was clear I "cheated" the test because I was so willing to let the panel run the test again without my involvement.

It takes a special kind of logic to draw that conclusion. Had I stopped the test at that point, that conclusion would have some merit. But to suggest a nefarious motive BECAUSE I offered to get out of the way is pretty far fetched.

The sad part - the participants all had fun until they tried to take part in the thread slamming the event, and they were beaten down, all because they didn't pick the speaker that the OP of that thread thought they should.

The good part - a lot of lurkers dropped PM's expressing appreciation for the efforts, and most people who are lurkers understand these tests are not perfect.

I appreciate your time and your stories, Craig.