Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo So NOW I'm a real Axiom owner...

So your saying my cables that are run up on the ceiling aren't helping me. Damn I put a lot of work into that. FWIW I have been told the human body is a huge bass trap, depending on your girth

Well, I added an M-100 to the center of my M80s. I'll report on the effect once I get it all hooked up & calibrated.

It's an unusual setup as the Oppo 105 will be connected directly to the power amps. All distances (phase) and levels will be set by ear using the Oppo's controls. I do have a preamp, but it's analog stereo only. I'll be using its "HT-bypass" mode for movie & surround audio listening.

Very interested in your results. I have pondered using my oppo as a pre processor but noticed it doesnt handle dynamic range settings the same as my avr. Not sure if it was a bug or not, but the avr had better dynamics overall with all settings being equal. So many settings called different things doing the same job.... Hard to do an apples to apples nowadays.

OK - So here's my take on the Axiom VP-100 center speaker.

First, a bit of background: My system consists of an Oppo 105 used as DAC (via DNLA over ethernet) feeding the balanced inputs of a stereo Emotiva XSP-1 (generation 2) preamp. A pair of Emotiva XPA-1L mono block amps feed my Axiom M80 (generation 3.5 - with the new tweeters) front speakers.

When I do movies, though, I use the "HT bypass" inputs on the preamp and route the 5.1 RCA outputs of the Oppo directly to the power amplifiers. I currently use a Yamaha "pro" power amp for the center channel, and a Peavey "pro" power amp (whose fan roars like a 747) for the surround speakers.

Although the front speaker trio is all Axiom (M80 fronts & VP100 center), the surrounds are 12" MTX "Thunder Pro" horn-loaded PA monitors. The subwoofer (used below 80 Hz.) is a PowerSound Audio XV-15.

The room is relatively large. I listen at significantly lower than THX reference levels.

So what of the VP-100? For movies, I find that the thing is absolutely phenomenal! I do not notice any change in timbre when the sound moves from left to right (through the center) across the front. Of course, when surround kicks in, I DO hear the (significantly) different signature of the MTX surrounds, but this isn't about them...

Dialogue is clear, articulate, with no sibilance, and lets you forget the system and immerse yourself in the soundtrack. This is what a center speaker is SUPPOSED to do, but what so many don't. I'm running my M80s in "large" mode, and my VP-100 in "small." When balancing levels by ear using white noise, I can hear slight differences in timbre between the M80s and the VP100, but the difference is small enough that it disappears when the action starts.

I also cranked up the volume just to see if I could get the VP100 to distort or change timbre in any way. The result? No change that I could hear! The little speaker hung together with the big boys with not even a hint of distortion.

Now as to the Oppo being less dynamic than when using a preamplifier, yes, I agree wholeheartedly. I believe that the analog outputs of the Oppo, while nice sounding, do give away the last iota of dynamics. I'm a minimalist at heart, and was reluctant to include a (seemingly unnecessary) preamp in my system. But I must admit that I've been won over. With the Oppo alone driving the power amps (talking of stereo listening here), the sound "flattened out," dynamically as the volume rose. I think that the Oppo was just running out of current trying to drive the power amps, but this is just speculation on my part.

With the preamp in the system, the dynamics are maintained from very soft volumes all the way to louder than I listen. This means that anything I want to hear can "scale" up with the volume and still sound very realistic. So, to my ears, using the Oppo's analog outputs into a preamp is a better choice than using them directly into the power amps.

And to summarize about my VP100, it was an excellent choice, and VERY well worth the money! Now I need to shop some Axiom surrounds! LOL

Boom:

How can that be? I have it an good authority from a recent poster elsewhere that:

'Vp100 is horrible center btw'

I too found that my VP100 did its job exceedingly well, especially considering its small form factor. There were none of the comb filtering/dispersion issues apparent in my room that causes many enthusiasts to set their hair on fire.

When I updated my stand, I traded-up to the VP160 that is simply great as well...

TAM

Thanks for the update on the oppo as preamp processor. I'm not crazy afterall! even I was questioning myself....

I thought the comb filtering thing was more aimed at the VP150/VP180/M80/M100 types. The VP100 is a conventional D'Appolito design.

Eh, whatever.

I am completely unsurprised at your conclusions that a preamp is necessary.

I wouldn't claim that a preamp is necessary - only that it adds a smidgen to the dynamics - particularly at higher listening levels. I originally used my Oppo straight to the power amps and had friends claim it was the "best sound they'd ever heard." Despite that, when the preamp was added, a more dynamic presentation was there - but only noticeable at higher levels.

For example, one of my fave test tracks is "Sing, Sing, Sing" by the BBC Orchestra. Their drumming, in particular, sounds good with the 2.1 system turned up. With the Oppo alone driving the power amps, it sounded like a good recording of drums. With the preamp in the system, though, it sounded like DRUMS! Like, in the room with you and with the impact of a live performance (in a much bigger space). The same was true of the blat of the trombones and the trumpets. Just more verisimilitude at higher levels. At lower levels, the two were comparable.

As to the VP 100 center channel. I'd expect that one's response to it would depend on a number of things:

How large is the room where the speaker is being used? My seating position is no more than 15 feet from the speaker. In a larger room, the small drivers might not be able to play as loudly.

How loudly does the viewer want the soundtrack? I, as mentioned earlier, am not one who rattles the timbers with movies. If someone wanted a much louder presentation, then certainly the drivers of the VP 100 could be driven to distortion.

How particular is one about the center to L/R speaker match? No center speaker (unless it is the same make/model of the sides and in the same orientation (vertical, horizontal) will sound exactly the same. Some, misguided by internet blather, believe that only a PERFECT match will provide an acceptable front soundstage. This is incorrect. Remember that in movies, the R/L front speakers are for effects, only. This means that much of the time, they're silent. A reasonably close match between the three front speakers is sufficient for movies (although maybe less so for SACD surround sound).

These factors, taken together, make the VP 100 a fine choice for my cinema. YMMV.

Boomzilla

Ken:

Over the past couple of years I've read so much elsewhere on CC speakers that accuses even the ubiquitous D'Appolito speakers as being a compromised & poor design - for the reasons mentioned above.

Many people get really anal about this stuff that is largely misguided & overblown IMO...

TAM

Hi Ken -

Yes, people DO get anal about all manner of trivia, particularly on the internet. Folks who are just nice people in real life can become raving lunatics over the smallest thing when strongly contradicted on the internet.

My take - It doesn't really matter. Keep in mind that the "internet expert" on a particular topic may really be a bored 14-year-old boy who's never even heard (much less owned) the product under discussion.

Joe D'Appolito's speaker configuration has its roots in radio antenna design and is scientifically sound. It does direct dispersion more in one axis than the other. Depending on your room, this can be of benefit (or not).

Now that I've become overblown, a good day to youse!