Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Hearing Things A six month long test of an Axiom Tower vs. ???

Craig. I am curious to know the actual setup that you have. I know you have given it mixed in throughout the 11 pages of posts.

Specifically, for the past bit are you just testing the speakers in Stereo mode (ie only two speakers without any additional sub).

I ask as it seems that there is a fixation around here for getting more from the bottom end frequencies of the speakers. I would really like to see an honest opinion of the M50 vs M100 in a pure 2 speaker test, and then how they sound against each other when a sub is added into the mix.

From reading many of the question posts here on the forum, I get a gut feeling that many users out there (myself included) just don't have an understanding of the correlation between frequency response, speakers and the music we listen to. Without that we are just throwing money and effort against a wall to see what sticks.

Matt - Thanks for a great question ...

For the initial series of listening, the set up is a very straight forward 2 channel test. A Marantz 7008 receiver is being used as the 2 channel amp. All processing is turned off - basically, what we have is an honest 164 WPC amp into 8 ohms and 215 WPC into 4 ohms, amplifier driving each pair of speakers.

The CD player is a Marantz DV-6001 universal player that sold for about $600 new.

These are "real world" components. I wanted to drive the speakers with the type of equipment one would typically use instead of the practice we often see where Stereophile tests a pair of $1000 speakers with a $40,000 amp set up.

For later tests, I have available the Axiom ADA-1000-5 power amplifier, which will allow for bi-amping the M-100's and Signature SE's with 250 WPC dedicated to both the bass sections and upper sections of each speaker.

In listening tests so far, the M50's have been really impressive for a small tower selling for $998 per pair. The M-100's are a more revealing, and powerful speaker in every sense. There is a family resemblance to the sound of both speakers - they are neutral, have great dynamics ... etc ...

The M-100's are a "big brother" to the M-50's, which is not a surprise.

Adding a subwoofer to the M50's, and taking away having to produce bass below 80 Hz will likely "clean up" the sounds in the mids. To what I "think" is your point: I would like to explore how good a pair of M-50's and an EP-350 is. At under $2000 for a 2.1 system, and in an easy to drive speaker, it could be a real bargain system that gets you to 22 Hz.

The 5 channel system I would like to explore would be the M-50's, the EP-350, a VP-100 and a pair of M-3's.

This is a $2531 system in the outlet store.

Hi Craigsub. Are you planning to use an external crossover during your bi-amp tests? It would be too cool if Axiom had one available. Looking forward to the results as I have been toying with the idea of bi-amping the front array of my LFR1100v4's.

As of now, the bi-amping would be as suggested by Axiom - passive bi-amping. This still yields benefits over running full range.

Perhaps Andrew could address the issues with active, or electronic bi-amping.

For those who don't know what this would mean: Active, or electronic bi-amping has an "pre-amp" level controller which would dedicate the power amp to the frequencies as specified.

For example, Let's look at the LFR-1100 and M-100 ... they cross over from the bass section to the mid/tweeter section at 160 Hz.

With an active crossover, the two amps would be separated by the crossover, with the bass amp dedicated to frequencies below 160 Hz and the mid/tweeter amp handling frequencies above 160 Hz.

With passive bi-amping, the speaker's crossover handles this within the speaker itself, and is separating the high level signal from the power amp.

The amplifier is less taxed when using an electronic crossover than in passive bi-amping. There are other issues that arise with active bi-amping, especially in level matching the drivers, which the current speaker crossover already does.

This would be something that Axiom would decide was a worthy "accessory" with the LFR-1100 and M-100.

My guess is that with an amp like the ADA-1000-6 available, if Axiom was going to bi-amp, they would jump to tri amp, with a dedicated amp to each the woofer section, mid range section and tweeter section, making for an "active" speaker system with the M-100.

With the LFR-1100, it would require dual ADA-1000-5's, and ten total channels of amplification, to tri-amp this to a full functional tri-amp set up.

This would be quite the project, for sure.

That is exactly my question. I have a set of LFR1100's so it's rather a redundant question for myself. I know the sound that I get with the LFR and the bass is just about right for the music that I listen to. As some point I will try getting a nice tight sub to get my down to that mystical 17hz, but for the most part I don't know if I really need it.

However in reading the posts from people saying how they'd get a set of M80 but the M100 are just too large, and then in the same breath talk about a sub woofer that have.

I know from my experience, the sound of a smaller speaker with a sub is different than a large capable speaker without. Not saying one is better than the other, just different. I know that I am not musically trained and couldn't tell you if my hearing is shot for all these nuances that get reported in a demo review. I just know what I like and what I don't.

I just thought it would be great to get an honest review of that mid sized M50 both with and without the added sub and compare it to the big brother M100 so you can make a more informed decision when out purchasing.

Matt - Yes, there will be some comparative notes between the M100's without a sub and the M50's with a sub.

As this concept of trying out various product continues, other aspects will also be discussed. For example, let's say a guy is looking at home theater, and has $2500 for speakers. He typically buys his $2500 system, and in two years, he wants more.

The Axiom trade up program is rather unique. I ran an example on this, and a guy with a pair of 2 year old M50's would get about $600 of his $998 back towards a pair of M80's if he wanted to trade up.

If price is a consideration, future retained value should also be considered.

Who knows - maybe I will be trading the M100's on a pair of LFR-1100's next year.

I lasted about 20 days.. Though I traded from the M80 to the LFR1100. Figured that I am only on this planet for a short time and might as well enjoy myself while here. I believe in spending money for a good ROI. It's getting bang for the buck without slipping to far into that point of diminishing return

Guys - below is the latest update on Home Theater Shack ..

Axiom M100 notes:

Legacy Audio Test Disc:

The first cut on this disc is from a singer with whom I was previously unaware. Her name is Amanda Rubarth, and the song is called Novocaine. It is a remarkable disc of her, her guitar, some violin, and subtle effects of footfalls, percussion on the guitar ... it is a tremendous disc. Amanda's voice is haunting (and this song has me ordering a couple of her CD's). My daughter, who has been in the performing arts for several years, including two years of opera training, stopped by the listening room, and she was quite impressed by both the song, and how good the speakers are.

Her words: "Dad, you have had a lot of great sounding speakers, but with these, she sounds like she is here".

The rest of the disc is also a treasure of deep bass funk, jazz and classical music, and the M100's made me want to listen to this disc several times, which I have. BUT ... keeping in mind this is a long term test, it was time for more music.

Pink Floyd's The Wall

As good as the Martin Logan ESL Hybrids and the Axiom M50's were on "The Wall", the M100's take this disc to a new level. The most remarkable aspect of the performance on The Wall was how well the M100's bring out all the subtle sonic cues from the background. I have heard this disc over a thousand times, and have never tired of it. There were voices in the background that I had never heard before (a side note on this ... the Legacy Signature SE's are in the bullpen, and I am looking forward to hearing what they do with The Wall).

Bass is close to subwoofer ... and I mean LARGE subwoofer .. .deep. A subwoofer will add to the M100's, but as a full range speaker, they dig out the low stuff, with lots of slam. The Helicopter scene is "scary putting a smile on your face" good. The macrodynamic ability of the M100's is well beyond what one would expect, especially in a $2660 per pair speaker that can also delineate the subtle notes so well.

Going along the PinkFloyd line, you need to close your eyes and put on Wish You Were Here. You will swear blind that David Gilmore has moved in and is plucking his electric just beyond finger tip length away.

Matt - That is a great track, and an all time favorite song. It will eventually get some play.