Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Jury's still out!!

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I've never read "mount one surround directly above your head firing directly at your right ear, the other surround 8 feet away, plug the other ear by pushing it against a pillow, cock your head towards the diagonally opposite main and throw a blanket over yourself for best audio experience"

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Isn't that a direct quote from the QS manual? Son of a gun! (Funny stuff, Bren )

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My advice is hold back on judgment until you hook up the subs and listen to alot of music. You could do worse and spend more money.

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Nicely said, Richard, and very true.

Hello all, these are excellent posts...and I want to respond to many of the points made, but don't have time right this second (I'm supposed to be working)... One things for sure...speakers or no...this is an excellent forum!!!!

I will take every bit of advice I've received here to heart and will be putting these speakers through their paces this weekend -- who knows if I even have a CD that could be considered a quality recording...but...we'll see. I'm actually surprised...noone balked at the fact that I was just listening to the CD through a run-of-the-mill toshiba DVD player...instead of a high end Denon 2900 or something similar.

Anyway...thanks all for the responses...they're outstanding!! I will update soon with further impressions -- and I should add, that I ordered the SVS PB1-ISD sub today... I bet that will fill things out.

One question -- someone mentioned calibrating (I have planned to do that, in fact had already purchased the digital spl meter from Rad Shack even before I received the speakers), but ...right now I'm auditioning with only the mains....is calibration of any kind really that important in that configuration???

Calibration isn't important if you're only listening to the M60s. But, when you add any other speaker (ie. a sub, a center, surrounds), it becomes important to balance them by calibrating.

I apologize if you're already aware of this, but I have no way of knowing your level of expertise, and I'd rather bug you with something you're already hip to, than omit something you're unaware of (so much for "never end a sentence with a prepostion" ). If you're listening to the M60s only, be sure that, in your receiver's speaker setup menu, the right and left mains (the M60s) are set to "Large." When you add the sub, you should probably set them to "Small," and be sure the sub setting is set to "yes," or "on."

One more thing to consider (and something you asked about) is the source player -- and how it's hooked up. Some may disagree, but I find my Toshiba DVD is not a great audio CD player when it's hooked up through the digital coaxial to my Yamaha receiver. There are technical explanations, but the bottom line is in A/B tests with my ancient Sony CD changer, the CD changer always gives a richer sound, without some of the brittle highs heard via the DVD.

I imagine the DVD player combined with placement problems with the M80s could be producing the bright highs you're hearing. When I got my M60s, I was blown away, but I also heard cymbals and clear highs that I had never heard before on my CDs. The new sounds were great, but they interacted with my room in ways that could sound harsh. The new awareness revealed some of the reflections in my listening room. This led me to add thick yet translucent curtains over two sliding glass doors, and even my sarcastic wife admits this made an improvement in the sound quality of the room. She loves the speakers, possibly more than she loves me (certainly true from time to time). Bottom line: The room adjustments tempered the highs (which were from the room, not the speakers ... or rather, resulted from the excellence of the speakers IN that room). Now, I still get a harsh kind of high on one CD out of the 300 in my collection -- Sam Phillips' Martinis and Bikinis. But I've never tried this CD on another system, so the mild harshness quite likely comes from the recording.

So tinker a bit before you give up on the M80s.

If you make these adjustments (including the placement deal -- make sure they are 8-10 ft apart and at least 18 inches from the wall, preferably 2 feet) and still aren't sure, try to borrow some towers from a friend, to help figure out the source of the sound issues -- whether it's the speakers or something else. People have sometimes voiced concern with highs on the M80s, and you can do a search on "capacitor" in this forum to learn what some have done to deal with it. So you're not the first person to be concerned.

Birdman

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I'm actually surprised...noone balked at the fact that I was just listening to the CD through a run-of-the-mill toshiba DVD player...instead of a high end Denon 2900 or something similar.

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Few schools of thought (and all are represented here) on CD-P quality:

-some suggest that a high-end player will give you better sound through both the digital out and analog outs - the rationale you'll have to ask them about - I'm not in this camp

-most here agree that once you take the DAC (digital to analog converter) out of the mix by hooking the CD-P up through the digital outs, a player is a player is a player, but that DACs affect the sound quality of the analog outs

-yet others believe anything that will spin and read a CD will sound the same across the board

Bren R.

I liked my M60s when I first heard them connected to my old equipment, but I was blown away by them when I bought new Denon stuff. OBVIOUS differences in clarity compared to the 1994 stuff. The '94 Onkyo CD player w/ analog outs sounded definitely warmer, but duller, than either my Denon DVD player or Sony mega-changer (both connected w/ digital outputs). 2002 Denon receiver DACs vs. 1994 Onkyo CD DACs???

eightmanvt

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One question -- someone mentioned calibrating (I have planned to do that, in fact had already purchased the digital spl meter from Rad Shack even before I received the speakers), but ...right now I'm auditioning with only the mains....is calibration of any kind really that important in that configuration???

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I think I have your answer. I had a brand new reciever and I hooked up my brand new M60s to it. I turned it on, and immediately had the same reaction. It turns out that my H/K 630 has all of the channel calibration settings at 0dB, the speakers set to small, and the delays set to like 6ft. I set both fronts to large (since I had no sub yet), and the channel adjustments to +5db, then set the distance to 11ft on the front delay settings. This immediately relieved my disappointment. I used an SPL later that night, and had to lower the left side to +4db to balance them out. They sound incredible now.

If you haven't changed ANY of the default settings on your AVR, then you can be pretty sure that almost all of them are wrong. DO NOT PANIC!

I have the M80's as well and I found in my case that a they needed a little bit of toe-in and that changed things signifigantly.

As well a good point was made about set up for the receiver. Perhaps the speakers are set to small which could remove a lot of the bass from the mix. Check the menu if you have the onscreen display hooked up via your TV.

Ok...here's an update regarding my impressions from listening this weekend...actually, I've cranked them every chance I've gotten -- using many different styles of music. I have really warmed to these speakers, although...I don't find them to be warm -- but they are especially clear...crystal clear ...really, and extremely neutral -- which is something I appreciate.

I did get a chance to tweak the Denon...and set the fronts to large...bumped up the bass a bit, and now that I put the surrounds up...am using the 5 ch setting... I have also experimented with many of the other signal processing settings, but need more tweaking time -- and all in all really appreciate the clarity of these speakers. They even handle bass quite well. For some reason...I keep feeling like I need to eq the system -- call it poor quality cds or what you will, I keep thinking that an eq could add that punch I'm looking for. That said, the speakers aren't to blame for that...rather most of my cd's don't have a lot... and I expect to improve drastically on that end with my svs subwoofer scheduled to arrive tommorrow. All in all I like these speakers. I've only listened to music so far...no HT...but am looking forward to that too...especially with the sub.

I really feel confident that I definitely got my money's worth...and then some...about the only other speakers in this price range...that I would have liked to audition would be the swans or the rockets... I have read that these are anything but neutral...

All in all I like my speakers...and that feeling is growing every day ... I'll let you know how the system sounds with the sub....

I have a feeling the sub will add that punch you're looking for.