Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs?

Some vintage gear is really good. I have a pair of Yamaha M80s rated at 250 wpc continuous, into 8 ohms, stable to 2 ohms. Sounds great. I'd like to get an old Sansui AU701a. Recently heard one driving a pair of Marten floor standers and it sounded really excellent!

I was looking at the Hegel H190, and I think I misread it (sorry) I saw the "into 8 ohm" and skimmed right along:
- Power output: 2 x 150 W into 8 ohms
- Minimum load: 2 ohms
That is an interesting amp, I'll have to see how flush I'm feeling when the time comes in a few months. (Retiring 7/1 and treating myself, so I have to order what I need by March so it's all ready when I am.)

Yeah, that old stuff was rock solid - and your Dad must be proud!

Interesting calculations Mojo; once in a while I'll measure SPL and I'm usually listening at 80-90; so that works. (My room is very reflective; maybe too much.)

I've looked at Cambridge Audio before, but didn't find one with a network connection. So I'd have to add something like the CXN in and that brings it up to serious money again. It would be a nice combo though ...

I appreciate all this info, I hope I'm not coming off as nay-saying. I'm hearing loud and clear that the Yamaha will work, but will not be ideal' so I'll keep on looking at options.

The Yammie has been tested and achieved 114W into 8 Ohms and 160W into 4 Ohms. So yes, it will work.

It has very good noise performance...but only in Pure Direct. If you want to use YPAO for "room correction", you cannot use Pure Direct and noise performance will be bottom of the barrel. My late 80s vintage Yammie was no different in this regard and at 1/3 volume, I could hear the difference between Direct and not.

So it will work but is perhaps not so performant if you want to use YPAO or bass and treble EQ.

This seems like a conundrum really. The RN803 is a really nice receiver, more or less future proof and well built.

Yet in a slightly larger room the power supply doesn’t allow for the dynamics we want ( and that the m80 hp in this case can deliver rather well I bet ) / power supply that in a room that is a bit bigger would need and use.

It seems like the division point is around 100 watts for the elegant one box solution and separates. And to get that next 3 db bump you need another 100 watts and then 200 for another 3 and so on.

So it seems you / we / anybody / decides on “ good enough “ or jump all in, or use a smaller space but don’t put too big a speaker in the smaller space.

The middle ground of bigger watts in an integrated with 110,120, or even 200 watts are few and far between and rather expensive but be just enough to give the headroom desired for space and preferred spl.

Is there an argument to be made for capacitance though? That 100 watts rms with 12,000 uF is less effective than the 90 watts rms with 30,000 uF behind it. So the question is how much is enough? I think the higher the capacitance the better ..... or do you lose something with too high of capacitance?

See, conundrum.

I've found the M5/1000-2 combo is bordering on inadequate for my 4200 cu ft space at 14 feet away. The M100/1000-2 is plenty! This is with subs on. The living room at 1p feet away is a different story. The ADA-1000-2 is plenty loud with any speaker.

You really can't judge anything from the capacitance figure. You have to know the dynamic power the amp is spec'd for. Axiom specs that figure. Most others do not.

I've seen Yamaha spec some amplifiers with dynamic power ratings. Can't say i've checked them all for that spec but they are there are the few i've looked at over hte last year, including my old Yammie.

Not to drag this post off the rails, Mojo, but why is the ada-1000-2 with M5 barely adequate versus the m100 with ada-1000-2? Are you saying its more about the space that the m5 is trying to pressurize versus the amoiunt of drivers in an m100 to pressurize the size space? (More about the space than the wattage and power of the ADA-1000-2).

Looking at the ADA-1000-2 at 54,000 uF versus 60,000 uF , how might this matter in terms of performance with the lesser capacitiance. I don't think it would matter at all unless you were measuring specs, sound about right? Would the dynamic power out put change at all? 6000 uF difference is 10 % less, seems like a fair bit when I word it that way, convince me doesn't matter....

Be careful with dynamic power specs. A good spec, which by the way I've never found, ought to read something like "300W into two, 8 Ohm loads for 100 msec with 25% duty cycle from 20Hz to 20KHz with no more than 1% THD+N". Just look at how complete that spec is.

The reason the 100 works and the M5 barely does with the ADA example I gave is the higher sensitivity of the M100. The M100 can hit at least 4 dB higher than the M5 with the same power level.

Now you could power the M5 with a 1250 or 1500 but you start to run into design limits of the M5. At that point, you are better off going with an M60 or greater.

Note too that my FWB powers her M5s in her very large living room with my 20 year old, 90W Denon. No sub. No problem. For most, the ADA-1000-2 would likely be more than enough.

You can't wave away the extra 10% difference in capacitance without being intimately familiar with the design's performance. Perhaps the AC ripple was too much and it was messing with the noise margin. Perhaps the design was meeting the peak spec but the duration wasn't long enough causing smearing of instruments. You just don't know.

The M5 is knecapped at 84ish db sensitivity vs M100 at 90 or so. So to hit same unclipped spl in room needs 4x the power once you hit loud peak levels.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1821:nrc-measurements-axiom-audio-m5hp-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

Edit: you sniped the reply! Im Too late. Check your mailbox.

I dont think it's 84ish. I think it's more like 87ish vs. 91sh. I'm not sure I trust the chamber Soundstage measurements for the M5. The ferrofluid in the tweeters may have been cold. When I bought them, I went by what the reviewer, Andrew and Craig told me and discarded the measurements.

Back to the original conversation, Cork. If this is a retirement gift for yourself, I say go for it man. I don't know your budget constraints but get yourself something to power those m80HP's to the level that they and you deserve! It could be argued as well that additional power even at lower volumes is a good thing, plus you'll have power on tap for those times you are feeling the need for loud or when the neighbours are away and you can crank it up!

Of course, realize that by talking with this crowd, we are all fanataics.

What are running for speakers right now?