Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater One pair or two pairs of M3 ceiling speakers?

After trying every M3 Axiom makes (except the built-in version) the in ceiling ones were the most disappointing. I’d use them only if aesthetics are an overriding factor. The on-walls, on the other hand, are incredibly good and I’d use them without hesitation.

Thanks rrlev! The link below describes my configuration ... https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/7.1.4-overhead-speaker-setup-guide/

Rrlev, would be curious to know how you compared them -- a 'double blind' test etc, types of music etc. Given how passionate Ian and team are, surprised they didn't tweak the two to provide comparable acoustics ... appreciate your thoughts, and thanks in advance!

Ian and gang did the best they could but couldn't defy physics. They did a damned great job on the on-walls though! Highly recommend M5 and M2OW. I haven't tried any others.

I felt the same way. When I did the original comparison I just lined up the four types of M3's I had and gave each a listen. I already knew the M3 bookshelves and was extremely impressed with the M3ow (tested ports up sitting against the wall with an M3 as a stand) ... sounded as good as the bookshelf. The in-wall and in-ceiling fell way short in the low-end but at the time I didn't have them installed in a wall or ceiling so I needed to wait before coming to a conclusion. In the end I decided that I had several rooms where aesthetics were important. So, I installed the in-ceilings in those rooms. Bottom line, I was disappointed. Not even close to a M3 (and I did try some M3 bookshelves in the kitchen). They do sound better in smaller rooms like my master bathroom but still not close to the bookshelf IMO. One of the things I want to try is to bump the base a bit ... I think that might make a world of difference but since the Transformer doesn't have any sort of base boost or equalizer, at least that I've found, I haven't tried it yet.

Sorry, only subjective opinion ... no blind, double bind, or any kind of rigorous testing here ... but that said ... Go with the on-walls

Agreed.

The only part where I'm confused is the directionality that on wall speakers have ... tweeters on top, midrange at the bottom. In an on-ceiling configuration, wouldn't that distort the sound stage?

Additionally, would ceiling speakers have to render a lot of bass?

Sorry, just trying to understand, appreciate the feedback!

I started off thinking that you needed to have a good image between each set of speakers; surround or otherwise. And this works for a single listener ... you can have a great surround setup with very few speakers for one listener ... the listening area being a single point, the MLP. As the more listeners are added, as the listening area expands (the box drawn around all the listeners) you need more speakers for all of them to localize a sound as coming from the same point. Imaging still works for the group of listeners in, or close to, the sweet spot. But people who fall out of it may find that sounds do not move smoothly from one place to another.

If you’re sitting right next to the side surround that speaker dominates. An object gliding from front to back may sound like it jumps from the front to the side, hangs a bit and then jumps to the back. Adding more speakers would smooth out that transition.

Now as far as how full range do the surrounds need to be ... well the general consensus seems to be the fuller the better. If a truck is rumbling by ... how much of that rumble is directional. It’s a compromise... I went with M5s for bed surrounds and M3s for everything else but I’m sure M3s or M2s would have been fine for all of them.

Unintended post

rrlev, I really appreciate the thoughtful back and forth. Pls allow me to excerpt this blurb from the Dolby site, would appreciate your thoughts, and if nickbuol is available, his as well.

The specific phrase that appears to match the M3 overheads is 'wide dispersion pattern', and 'timbre matching'. They did not speak to a full frequency response. But pls refer to the excerpt further down below.

"Dolby Atmos audio is mixed using discrete, full-range audio objects that may move around
anywhere in three-dimensional space. With this in mind, overhead speakers should
complement the frequency response, output, and power-handling capabilities of the
listener-level speakers. Choose overhead speakers that are timbre matched as closely as
possible to the primary listener-level speakers. Overhead speakers with a wide dispersion
pattern are desirable for use in a Dolby Atmos system. This will ensure the closest
replication of the cinematic environment, where overhead speakers are placed high above
the listeners. "

Additionally, in the below, 100Hz-10Khz is the audio band that appears critical, thought a wider band is preferable. I wonder how the Overhead M3s compare to an on wall in the 100-300Hz range.

"If the chosen overhead speakers have a wide dispersion pattern (approximately 45 degrees
from the acoustical reference axis over the audio band from 100 Hz to 10 kHz or wider), then
speakers may be mounted facing directly downward. For speakers with narrower dispersion
patterns, those with aimable or angled elements should be angled toward the primary
listening position. "

Reference, page 7 from: https://www.dolby.com/siteassets/te...-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf