Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Dead Site

So, what is the consequence of squelching general audio discussions on this forum? A dead site. Interminable posts about progress of someone's home theater build, and, for the most part, problems with Axiom products ... clicking subwoofers, dead subwoofers, some, what are you listening to tonight, and the occasional and peculiar references to edged weapons and mankinis.

It's really very sad. Axiom products are excellent and should be discussed in the context of the universe of audio. Maybe that would open this forum up to people who are interested in audio.

Please, stop killing this site, it deserves better. A more welcoming response, a broader range of acceptable topics, and a bit more grace would help Axiom's reputation in the audio world.

I posted plaudits to the Canadian truckers some time ago, and was blocked by several of those who used to post here and received many vitriolic PMs.

I posted pictures and commentary on a variety of audio products, some Axiom and many from other manufacturers. The non-Axiom related posts were heavily criticized. The gist was, "this is an Axiom site, why are you posting about other audio products?"

Why limit discussions to Axiom products?

So, let a thousand flowers bloom.

I agree, we need more politics in an audio forum. So let the proletariat rise up against the bourgeoisie and seize the means of production, man!

And I lead the rebellion by driving a sedan, not a truck. Living it up in 'Berta!

Canadian cowboys! I think the commissars in the frozen north are doing a good job crushing both the proletariat and the bourgeoisie. Hat trick!

Is your sedan an eco friendly electric? Save the planet my friend.

Let's not forget about those who get their feelings hurt and go away for long periods of time....oh, wait...LOL

You and I are the longest active members. We have witnessed people come and go, arguments...even respected members die, never to be heard again.

But this is essentially Social Media, for better or worse, and you have to deal with what happens online and how people react.

Remember how I was vilified for suggesting another speaker was better? I was also criticized for wanting real wood and not a vinyl coating? Seems like that "feature" that would be too costly is now what everyone wants.

There is no comparison, wood is better!

Yes, I took a break, felt unloved despite my passion for audio, and Axiom, but, I'm back and glad to hear from you.

I'd like to see this site live again!

Welcome back 2x6. Good to see you here again.

Great post about FM radio. My oldest kid has discovered radio and was amazed by it. He likes tuning and moving around from station to station in his bedroom and then playing with the tuner in the truck when we drive.

And yes!!! Wood is definitely better!!!

Cheers

I'm saving the planet by being a minimalist and moving my consumption from things to experiences (being in my 50's helps, I have no more stuff to buy). Anything I still shop for is either bought for life or buying second life.

I'm driving an early 2000's Lexus ES300 until the wheels fall off; no B.S. tech like brittle transmissions, subscription services for the heated seats you've already paid for, or $60,000 replacement batteries. The stock audio system (Lexus branded but using Pioneer components) is excellent, the equal of the Mark Levinson system in my previous LS430. I wished it had factory Bluetooth.

I'm still waiting for my 29 year old Mirage sub to die so I can replace it with an EP500 or equivalent.

Wood veneer vs vinyl veneer is an interesting subject. From a real vs fake perspective it is of course better! From a durability perspective it’s not so simple. My vinyl M22’s have survived things which would have killed wood veneer. It’s also interesting how many people think that they are wood!

Anyway, where it counts … how they sound .. I believe I can state safely that the veneer has no effect.

Yup. I have a bunch of Axiom made Michauras with phony Rosewood wraps ... they are drop dead gorgeous.

I have both wood and vinyl Axiom and to be honest the vinyl is excellent and easily looks like real wood. But there is a nuance of the real wood that is tangible but I have to admit it is subtle. I’ve only compared the Boston cherry vinyl to wood. I have the wood ebony m2s. Can’t compare them but they are really nice. I normally wouldn’t pick ebony but the b stock deal a few years ago was too good too pass up and it turns out I really like the black. I’ve had other brands of black vinyl “wood” “ wrap and it looked fake.

I’d say wood for the win but a quality vinyl wrap that brings the prices down would also be welcome given how good it is. But then again real wood has a certain elegance and quality to it.

How’s that for sitting on the fence? ( a wooden one at that too).

My next car will probably be a new Prius to replace my current 2011 Prius. The car is going strong but we want the newer safety features.

I have 2 Mirage subs from my early1990’s HT. Those too are still going strong … one was repurposed to the electronic drum set; the other is waiting for me to do something with it. My only maintenance on them, in the last 30 years, has been to clean the level pots. Here’s hoping that my Axiom subs do as well!

The pots are the components giving me problems too. I can't really call it a design defect, who'd imagine that a sub would last this long. Even the foam surround is in pristine condition.

I'm currently researching what makes for a musical subwoofer. I'll post my findings to the forum, but it's difficult to find scientific papers on the subject (particularly why 1.5x is the threshold for group delay audibility at bass frequencies), just lots of pragmatic ones from DIY assemblers and bloggers. It might be the one case where things sound better when you throw a lot of money at it.

Speaking of Bluetooth, I satisfied my own curiosity and decided to try a Bluetooth FM transmitter to see if I could pipe tunes from my phone to the car. I picked up a $40 Scosche BTFM5 over the weekend. All it had to do was reach the low bar of FM-quality sound to be a keeper.

Nope. Not only does it NOT reach AM mono sound quality, but it doesn't play loud enough on the car stereo to beat the iPhone in an SPL contest. I'll be returning the transmitter tonight.

(I had a 3.5mm to cassette adapter in the 90's to play CD's from my Discman to car stereo; that didn't work either, it just kicked on the autoreverse in a continuous loop).

I remember a few heated conversations on this site. I think I was involved with most of them..... Still here though, despite my obvious, opposing point of view on things non-A/V related with the majority that used to, or probably still do, visit this place. I'll just keep those to myself.

My father was ever so right when he told me to avoid talking politics and religion with strangers, and only with family you don't mind losing. That was fifty'ish years ago. There really is no room for polite disagreement these days. No point in going there.

There is a woodworking forum I participate in. They have a hard line - no politics or religious talk, period. Seems to work. The mods do not allow it, and for the most part, the conversations are friendly and helpful.

It is kinda sad to see the state of this place though. There were some enjoyable conversations too.

Sorry, on the comment about taking a break, I think many of us have done this for various reasons.

There was an element that staunchly defended everything Axiom. Any discussion that strayed from their perceived framework was beaten down. I have been an Axiom owner since the late 1980's, probably among the first factory visitors on this board in 1990, and have continued to buy and visit the factory - my last visit was August 2023. The product is still good value and the staff helpful.

It has been interesting to see products, people on the board, and topics come and go. I enjoy my time here and the anniversary events that Ian hosts!

That wasn't a bad way of running a forum, IMHO. The 1980's to 2020 was really dark age of audio where consumers were in the dark about the loudspeaker pecking order. There were some of us in the know, particularly those who read Sound & Vision (Canada) and Audio Critic in the early 90's, who already knew that DAC, cable, and amplifier differences were mostly imaginary. But hardly anyone would give us the full loudspeaker measurements, perhaps because it wasn't part of the design and review process.

So all we had were marketing sound bites for us to figure things out. Axiom's marketing spin was being NRC science-based. They never showed more than the on-axis measurements, but that was better than what the competition was doing.

It wasn't really until websites like ASR, EAC, and spinorama.org quantified and aggregated the data in a manner that was accessible. Now we see who has their pants around their ankles, and it's not pretty. It was fortunate that Axiom and Bryston eventually published the listening window and sound power composite curves, the only 2 curves that matter for spectral balance according to the NRC and Harman research. Anyone with a v.4 product is sitting pretty.

It's not too late to follow in the footsteps of someone like Ascend Audio and just straight-out publish all their measurements of their latest products, they were a company that once made laughably bad measuring products.

I think you missed my point, which was a person could disagree with the thread - whether it was science based evidence, personal belief or personal choice - and the hate would reign down. I have strong beliefs in many areas of sound quality, what affects sound reproduction and what I believe to sound better to me. But I would never berate or talk down to those who believe differently.

That level of respect was missing for a few years.

BBIBH good morning!

Yes, I enjoy your posts. You are knowledgeable and courteous. Let a thousand flowers bloom.

Hi 2x6,

thanks for the kind words. I enjoy your posts about your audio technology and your experiences as well.

I just had to note that I am not currently dead. And if I may post something radical it's that I had 2 hip operations done in the past year and I love our healthcare, and leaning even further into the abyss...my home theatre has 2 SVS cylinder subs.

Wish we had national health care (down here in the US of A). Keep trying to get reimbursed by our excellent private insurance plans which keep rejecting you for all kind of interesting reasons. A battle of who will wear down who first! Finally figured out how to fill out the form correctly, fax it to the right place with the right markings of which department it should go to, follow up to make sure the fax made it passed the round file and … many trys later I received a check … you know what that means don’t you … it’s time for them to change the forms, fax #, department, and get a bigger bin!

I've had much better luck since I went to straight Medicare. They replace the hip (twice too!) and Medicare pays. No tedious forms, or god forbid, phone calls.

I'm starting to think that being an audiophile will ruin both your ears and your hips.

Whoa!!

I haven't been to the site in several years for reasons I cannot even remember, life getting in the way I guess but good gracious, after meandering around the various forums and catching up I simply cannot get over just how dead this place has become.

Great to see at least a couple of old soldiers still hanging around, and 2x6 I always enjoyed reading your post ... good to see you again!

Think all the USA guys died off waiting for health care reimbursement checks and I’m guessing from the rumors down here that the Canadian ones died off wait in line for the doc … well at least we could listen to some great music as hit our respective exits …

There are a few of us left. We wander by, read the posts, comment and then check in later.

Well darn it. Agreed, it’s quiet around here. When I joined at the end of 2019 it seemed pretty active. It was super valuable to me and fun too. I’d love to see some revival for sure! I guess it kinda snowballs if the responses are super slow or non existent and then people slowly drop off. Sometimes it’s just fun to chat audio stuff even if it’s not super important. It is a hobby after all and the best one in my opinion. Small community left or not, it’s good to see folks posting when they can and responding when they can. There must be other forums where people have placed their energy and attention.
Thanks all.

Forums have their place. Content creators have the advantage of being heard among the sea of noise, but it takes hours to script, shoot A/B roll, splice, edit, and post stuff. Even my occasional articles here take 6-12 hours to compose. Forums are a great place for people like you and I to say something short and stupid for posterity.

Speaking of content creation, I’m playing around with launching a YouTube channel. It’s a vast learning curve and a giant time suck, so I have to be decide whether it’s worth it.

There’s a giant content void on social status and consumerism, and my rival David Marx (author of “Status and Culture: How Our Desire for Social Rank Creates Taste, Identity, Art, Fashion, and Constant Change”, whom I beat to market by 4 months, booyah! And his sales numbers suck like mine, which means he’s made even less money than me because he sold his soul to a publisher.) hasn’t made his move yet.

My son and his buddies decided to start a Youtube channel. It has been a few years, but they started to have fun more recently. It is based on Minecraft and animation. Check it out - https://www.youtube.com/@TristanBakon/videos

They have some talent, but Minecraft is not my thing.

Tristan's content isn't my cup of tea, but his video editing skills are impeccable. It might take me a few years to reach that level.

Social media platforms are very democratic; anyone with a smartphone and an internet connection can upload content that can reach billions.

On the other hand, they're also winner-takes-all contests, where there's a handful of winners in a vast sea of anonymous nobodies drowning in a sea of content noise. I called it an r-select environment in my sociology book, but it's better known generically as a Pareto distribution.

My brother and niece both have YouTube channels. My brother is a prolific traveller and does travel videos that reach a small following using nothing more than direct uploading from an iPhone. My workaholic niece (Morgan Ekroth) has turned hers into a business, I guess you can do that with 6 million Tik Tok and a million YT followers.

It’s temping but you need to really differentiate your self. Better info and more entertainment than the next guy. Also it has to be something you really enjoy because it is a non-stop job to get it up and running and that goes double if it goes anywhere …

Rick good to see another USAian stopping back in from the good ole days.

Oh look! All my friends are here! Good to see you all.

Yes, audio is a great hobby. I think discussion of general audio matters could liven up our site. I posted recently about a wrong road (uneconomical) taken in pursuit of audio nirvana. It's not an inexpensive hobby. That's what I loved about Axiom. My first pair of M3Tis cost about $275 and knocked my socks off. Now, they are almost $600. I know the value of the dollar has sure fallen hard in the last 3 years, but I sure wish Axiom could help with the price of entry level speakers with great sound quality. Maybe, they could also come out with a higher end line with some more advanced technology ... like separate chambers for tweeter, mids and bass woofers, some 8" drivers, or even, dare I say it, 12" drivers. Maybe even an Open Baffle speaker ... that should save on the cabinet costs and challenge Ian and Andrew with a new cross-over design.

Of course, we have the LFR series which are very interesting! Magnepan is coming out with a new speaker with external DSP and which will require separate amplification for highs, mids and lows. Sound familiar? Of course, their customers will have to find their own amps, unlike Axiom.

This site could have helped Axiom market their wonderful speakers. Dead don't help.

I know Axiom is busy with Bryston, Magnum Dynalab and who knows what other acquisitions are in the works. I hope Ian has the time and energy to come up with some new Axiom speakers which excite the audio community.

New and exciting speakers are interesting but changing the design for change sake is more marketing excitement then step forward audio wise.

The revolution in my mind is combining digital processing, room and psychoacoustics, with speaker placement. If that requires changes to the speaker design to get the air to move in the way needed then I’m all for it

From Soundstage Network's interview with Ian Coulquhoun, he hinted about future Axiom loudspeakers that would reach the market by the end of 2025.

It seems like Axiom will incorporate the same module technology that Bryston uses to switch between single amp, bi-amp, tri-amp, and active for their T10 series (he calls it a door). The LFR 1100 Active will stay the same; he's hinted many times that it's a loudspeaker stereo pair that doesn't lose double blind listening tests, and has the listening window and sound power composite curves controlled to within +/- 1.0 dB. Those SOTA stats would get you a direct radiating loudspeaker Olive score better than 7.5 before adding a sub.

He also talked about driver component variability as a consequence of manufacturing variance, something Floyd Toole also discussed in his talk at CIRMMT. Reading between the lines, Axiom and Bryston don't have that problem because they've invested in the quality control equipment, and other loudspeaker companies haven't. And that's part of what you're paying for with Axiom's elevated prices.

https://youtu.be/e9dZ5obGuQk?t=3074 (time cued)
https://youtu.be/zrpUDuUtxPM?t=3948 (time cued)

Finally, Ian mentioned that their design process uses DSP to design their target curves, and then clone that using analog crossovers. I suspect that the v.3 and v.4 iterations were a product of that process.

https://youtu.be/e9dZ5obGuQk?t=1888

That’s really interesting… initially that struck me as brilliant… but then I started wondering if it would that been more obvious if I designed crossovers … the active crossover thing has been going on for a while now especially in pro audio area. Why not get the target parameters digitally and build a non active solution from that.

I just listen to a bit of that part … think I’m going to have to listen to the whole interview now … damn … not enough hours in a day to keep up with all the stuff I want to keep up with … forget about doing anything real!