Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M5HP vs. M60's

Hi Hambrabi,
I lot of truth in what you say here and a lot to digest in the reviews...tomorrow! I have to agree that we do tend to adapt to what we have and unless it's really 'offensive,' we can learn to live with it. But I also believe that a really neutral speaker, whatever that actually is, one reasonably well matched to the room, will be a lot easier to live with over time than one that has issues. The old lifted treble trick has, for sure, tricked many as has thunderous, booming bass! And you're quite right that the human voice has no such air and sparkle about it.

As I'd mentioned, I've never heard the Energy 22's nor anything from the Veritas line, just that they were supposed to be excellent. ?? Yeah, measurements are one thing but the sound delivered to the ear can be something else, especially taking rooms into account. Actually, too, we all hear differently and our expectations are different, often depending on what our preferred material is. (And our age!)

We also need to consider environment, biases and the equipment driving the speakers. I have long held beliefs that the source is the most important component in the audio chain. I have owned cheap to ultra expensive speakers and have been an Axiom customer since the late 1980's, early 1990's and believe their value proposition is the best I have found.

Axiom at one point off shored manufacturing. It has since returned to Dwight. Andrew was also an engineer at Audio Products International, the conglomerate owner of many audio brands - including Energy. Point of note, API was purchased by Klipsch.

Yes, I think we're both saying very similar things, if not quite exactly. By 'environment,' I think we both mean our surroundings, including the room and anything else that has an effect on what we are hearing from our systems. "Biases,' I think we mean our 'tastes' in sound reproduction, what we expect or want to hear, whether or not it's actually what others would call 'neutral.' What I hear as "neutral," the next person might hear as bland, dull, thin, etc., so it really does come down to personal taste. I guess there's really no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to taste, but fidelity to the original or intended could be considered more "right." After all, even a live performance of normal, standard instruments doesn't sound bright, or "airy" or boomy, but is balanced, open and natural sounding. So, I appreciate speakers that do the same.

As for the "source being the most important component," there'd I'd have to differ with you. I feel that the speakers themselves have the most determinative effect on the final sound of a system. I can change any number of things in the 'chain' and hear at most, very subtle differences; but if I change speakers, I'll likely hear enormous differences, depending on the type of speaker, etc. Everything from tonal balance to efficiency, not to mention dispersion and overall interaction with the room itself.

I didn't know that Axiom had been sourcing or manufacturing (?) overseas. That's something of a shock to me but at least they came 'back home.' Yes, I knew Andrew Welker had been working for API (Mirage? or whoever...) but I didn't know he went back as far as early Energy days. And yes, I know that when Klipsch bought them, Energy's speakers went 'overseas,'probably among others.

Hi Hambrabi,
I lot of truth in what you say here and a lot to digest in the reviews...tomorrow! I have to agree that we do tend to adapt to what we have and unless it's really 'offensive,' we can learn to live with it. But I also believe that a really neutral speaker, whatever that actually is, one reasonably well matched to the room, will be a lot easier to live with over time than one that has issues. The old lifted treble trick has, for sure, tricked many as has thunderous, booming bass! And you're quite right that the human voice has no such air and sparkle about it.

As I'd mentioned, I've never heard the Energy 22's nor anything from the Veritas line, just that they were supposed to be excellent. ?? Yeah, measurements are one thing but the sound delivered to the ear can be something else, especially taking rooms into account. Actually, too, we all hear differently and our expectations are different, often depending on what our preferred material is. (And our age!)

Hambrabi, thanks for the links to those speaker reviews. Doug Schneider's are always good, aren't they? I'm surprised to see the Veritas results, though, so now I don't feel I've really missed too much, especially considering the price. Bass from those things would have been intolerable in my room! Whew.

The C-2's really were pretty impressive, and the bass extension in my room was solid down to almost 30hz. And I always found their overall sound to be very natural, 'comfortable' and easy to live with, very similar in ways to the C-6's without the overbearing bass output.

Fair enough, all good. Note that I am not talking about the "similarly good" mass market brands of Sony, Yamaha, etc. If you drive a system with a better quality turntable (Linn) for example, your Sony TT will be exposed as being less than good. Your mileage may vary, depending upon everything we discuss above. I have built basic amp/speaker systems with high end sources, and they are always deemed better by friends/relatives than high end speaker based systems with mediocre sources. I do realize that not everyone has the means or access - and in some cases the knowledge of where manufacturers fit into the scale of decent to exceptional equipment. Bottom line - if you like it, that is all that matters! :-)


Yes, at one point Ian moved manufacturing and assembly to China. Now everything including the Bryston and the tuner business Ian recent bought are all designed and made in Dwight. If you are in the area, they welcome drop ins and will give you a tour!

The one element of a system I didn't mention, because I hadn't been thinking about it, is the TT, especially the arm and cartridge. They can definitely have a dramatic effect on the sound of a system, regardless of speakers or whatever else. But as dramatic as those differences can be, (comparing good vinyl playback components with mediocre ones) keeping whatever source constant and changing only speakers, I feel, will nearly always show huge differences between / among different speakers. Whereas, through any given "rest of the system," changing source hardware seems more subtle than changing speakers. Maybe we're both saying more less the same thing, but from different perspectives, BBIBH? I haven't used any vinyl for years...years...so that isn't usually on my radar and I don't normally think "vinyl" first.

I agree with your Linn vs. Sony comparison being clearly discernable, but do you think as much so as say comparing two similarly different speaker brands or types? A shame we all live so far away from each other! It would be fun to actually do some of this in person, on real, live systems! Nobody I know around here could possibly care any less about this kind of thing!

My audio sources nowadays are the apps on my iPhone and Chromecast with Google TV. For $13 a month, I get millions of songs, my own portable playlists, and no YouTube ads. I've buried analog. Thankfully, there's millions of grave digging Millennial and Gen Z hipsters to resurrect and nourish those formats.

I ditched vinyl when my JVC, Toshiba, and Akai turntables all croaked. Just like today, I listened to favorite tracks rather than complete albums, so I made my own mix tapes with Dolby B and later Dolby C. Type II chrome tape was good enough, but for my favorites I would use type IV metal tape for best sound quality. Tape also minimized record wear since the Shure cartridge needed a whopping 3 grams of tracking force for recommended playback.

I don't have fond memories of LP's, perhaps because I grew up through the elevated noise floor of the recycled vinyl era of the 1970's and 1980's. Today's virgin vinyl and 180g+ pressings are better, but at $30+ a pop, they're just not as accessible as the $5 and $8 records of the 70's and 80's (inflation unadjusted).

Oh, and I forgot to mention that LP is a home audio format. It's hard to play a record in a moving car or airplane. Digitization makes sense for convenience, space savings, and portability. I'm satisfied with sound quality for now, but think artists and recording engineers could make better decisions with today's releases.

I'm researching the minimum lossy bitrate before it's indistinguishable from lossless 16/44. I'll post the info to the forum when I find the verifiable answer, but it seems the bigger problem are the unfathomable streaming services: pristine uploads from content creators never reach the end user because it went through a black box of compression and data loss.

A TT was an extreme example, granted. The same can be said of CD, DVD, and most other playback devices. I
have switched for most listening to streaming service, and know people who are taking a similar approach to those services and also any media files they utilize. I run Spotify through a decent sound card on an average pc in my HT setup, through an average amp and M80 V2/M5 V4/VP160 V3/EP500 V4 x 2. I honestly cant be bothered upgrading any longer - having gone through the 80's to about 2020 when I said I was good. My days of Reference 3a Supremas and Totem Mani 2's, Linn Sondek, SIMAudio Moon amps are over. I mainly use the system for background music or HT at this point. Also, the closest high end shop (Sound Stage Fine Audio) owner recently retired...and I don't want to travel to audition gear any more. I try to visit Ian and gang yearly, just to see what they have in store and get any teasers of future plans. I dont think I will get there this year, but maybe next!