Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M5HP vs. M60's

I've had several speakers over the years, and some, I've really enjoyed. (All Canadian!) But during these last 6 to 8 years, I've been using Axiom M60's and more recently, the M5's; the 60's (v4) really are excellent speakers, in my opinion. Of course, rooms matter. The only real difficulty I've had with the 60's has been the bass range, from roughly 200hz. on down because the room really is part of the equation at that point. While the 60's certainly have a full, rich, crystal-clear, wide-open sound, very large-scale and rewarding to listen to and very impressive if pushed, there can be issues with bass-loading in an average size room. (Mine is 13' x 17' x 8'.) Furnishings and 'treatments' can made a difference but overall, the basic sound of any speaker will pretty much be what it is. The M5's, on the other hand, I've found to be every bit as 'rewarding' to listen to, clean, clear and very, very "comfortable." I've gone days without even having paid any direct attention to the speakers themselves. Like a clean windshield on your car, it shouldn't distract or draw attention to itself; it's just something to look through to see (hear) what's out there. The M5 bass register extends about as low as the 60's but is much less 'difficult' to deal with in the room. (approx. 30hz. in my room) Fewer obnoxious peaks and annoying 'bassness' generally, but yet are full sounding and natural; in some ways, even more so that the 60's. Also, you can adjust the height by adjusting the stand height, unlike any tower speaker. As far as loudness, I've found that the 5's remain clean as far as I've ever pushed them. At times, they can benefit from a good sub, but only to extend what is already good bass extension. The 60's benefit in some respects, from the Audyssey (32) treatment, at least in the bass control, but they almost need that, plus the sub, to smooth out the overall presentation in the room, whereas the 5's really don't need / benefit from any such room "correction." I don't know why there's so very little exposure to the Axiom products on line, generally, and especially to the speakers. Surveys, discussions and commentary rarely, if ever, include any talk of normal, room speakers like the 60's or M5's. People don't know what they're missing. Without hyper-analyzing and nit-picking, just listening with an open mind (and ears) would probably amaze some people. I've been a professional musician all my life, (primarily classical, and almost always acoustic, "real" instruments, so I do know what "real" sounds like.) No speaker is perfect but some are certainly a lot more convincing than others. There's some talk on this Axiom Forum here, about the 5's and 60's and a number of other models, but for my money, I feel you really can't go wrong with either of these, given a normal room and application. Interested to see what others have to say.

So would you recommend Audyssey 32 for anyone with bass issues? And does it need multiple subs to work best?

I've only had boomy bass in a couple of different rooms, both in basements with concrete flooring and concrete or masonry walls. My current and last residences were wood platform frame construction, and that same tower loudspeaker sounded good in those spaces.

I'm content with my M5's, I found the neutral sound I was looking for and blends nicely with the decor.

I found that with the Axiom 60's and especially the M5's, that Audyssey (xt32) has very little effect on frequencies above 300hz or so, but with the 60's, does have a pretty profound effect on lower, bass frequencies. Since that's usually where most of the problems are, it can be pretty effective in smoothing out the overall system's response. This is assuming the use of a sub because the bass output of the 60's e.g., is considerable and depending on the room and where you're sitting, the bass can be perfectly fine or somewhat overpowering. Rolling off, in effect, of the 60's' bass range somewhat, helps to reduce the problem and lets the sub deal with that range, "corrected." (There is a newer version of Audyssey that allows you to 'correct' only those frequencies below a certain point, like say, 300hz. I don't have that program so I can't comment on it.) Also, if repositioning the speakers is possible, that can have some effect on bass output.


I've never been able to incorporate two subs in my system, in this room, though some claim it's the only way to go. For me, any bass issues only seemed to get worse, but your room / system could well be different. The bass output of the 5's is more balanced overall, again, for me in this room, and I agree with you that they have a neutral, balanced sound. And certainly, they look good!

“ People don't know what they're missing. Without hyper-analyzing and nit-picking, just listening with an open mind (and ears) would probably amaze some people.”

This comment is gold. So very true. Folks just need to give them a try. The product literally speaks for itself. I’ve said it elsewhere before on the forum, I’m biased and a bit of an Axiom fanboy now, but the music and audio experiences I’ve had with my various axiom speakers are super fun and blow me away. Even when I’m just playing music and not critically listening, doing dishes whatever, something will catch my ear and draw me in and all of sudden I’m not doing dishes anymore but sitting and listening!!

I’ve since tried some Energy speakers and some older Paradigms too but the Axioms are the clear winner.

Great comment there Dlow.

Hi Kodiak,

Yes, I had various Energy Connoisseur speakers over the years, too, C-2 and C-6, initially, and then when the C-2's died (tweeter dried up) I began using the "odd numbers," the C-3 and C-5's. I liked them but with some material, they seemed to have something of a 'commercial' type sound. But later, in direct comparisons with the Axioms, they really fell short. The Axioms just opened up and relaxed the sound. I've since revisited the C-3's just for fun and still, overall, there's really no comparison. I think the best compliment we can give any speaker is to say that it just "goes away," it disappears; draws no attention to itself. No experience with older Paradigms but I don't like the newer ones. I don't know if they've changed their approach or what but they sounded very almost harsh to me. Might have been the store / showroom / related equipment, but non-starters for me.

Yeah. My Energy bookshelves are now a garage setup, perfect for that type of listening while working on stuff etc.

The old Paradigms are doing theatre duty in my budget theatre setup in my unfinished basement. Does the job for movies where im totally less critical. It’s really all about the 2 channel stereo for me for more critical listening.

I suspect my m60ti will eventually make it down there for their duty when I upgrade the living main system. But I’m in no rush really.

I really do think the axiom speakers are hard to beat even for the current prices. Folks were complaining elsewhere that the axioms “ used to be “ a good value. As if Axiom was immune to inflation and increased costs of doing business.

I am interested to try other brands of speakers for sure but I find it hard to pay more for something that’s maybe not as good. I guess it comes down to return policy. I know I will want to audition others for my eventual living room upgrade.

There was a forum member posting last year on an upgrade with axiom and paradigm. In the end I think he went with paradigm. I’ll see if I can find the thread sometime.

It sounds like you have some good options, having systems in different rooms. I just have one main system used for everything, so the speakers are the speakers!

I understand you want to look around at the current options when the time comes to upgrade, but I have a problem with so many of the so-called American, (or German or English or 'whatever') companies who claim to be American, German, etc., when the fine print says "Designed and Engineered in Whatever country," but then, clearly on the back of the product, "MADE IN CHINA." Well, then, it's not an American company, is it?! And if they're claiming to save so much money by having this stuff made overseas, in China, then why the heck is so much of it so very expensive!? Look at Monitor Audio or countless other products; they cost way more than Axioms comparing comparable models, so where is all that money going? And listen to some of it!...some pretty nasty stuff out there. Some insist that the products are 'well made,' 'top quality,' etc., but even if they are, I personally can't financially support let's say ... "what going on over there." (Follow what's happening in the western Pacific, with Taiwan, the Philippines, collaboration with Russia, etc., etc.) I'd soon go without than buy into their economy. Also, years ago, I worked in a business where we dealt with products, musical instruments, from all over, and initially, it seemed some of those "imported" products were Ok, not great but Ok. Then, after a while, we began to see the gradual disintegration of the products, failures due directly to poor quality materials, if not workmanship. So, what can we expect from today's stereo equipment down the road? I don't know but I don't care...I don't want to support them, or their so-called 'parent companies.'

So that leaves me, at least, few options, but fortunately, companies like Axiom still exist, making what I feel are great, sensibly priced products. (Focal is actually a real French company, so that'd be a possibility, but some of what I've seen and read doesn't speak well for some of their construction methods. Sound, of course, is a personal matter.) Paradigm is still Canadian, as far as I know, but it seems they've changed their sound.

Didn't mean to go on a rant here, but it is part of the equation, as far as I'm concerned. I certainly respect anyone's right to buy what they like, wherever it's made, but I'm very happy with the whole Axiom thing, and I hope they stay put and keep their prices in line. If not, they'll drive even loyal customers away.

Kodiak, I still have back issues of Sound & Vision (Canada), and the Energy Connoisseur C-2 was one of their best measuring loudspeakers. The listening window was a tight +/- 1.5 dB across most of the audio spectrum. Only the much more expensive Ethera Vitae was in the same ballpark (but with a worse directivity curve); most speakers of that era didn't even fit within +/- 3 dB.

API made great products back then, I've learned from a recent interview with Dr. Sean Olive that the Energy 22 was in regular rotation at the NRC because it was hard to beat in double blind listening tests.

Yes, the C-2's were great. I was really disappointed when mine gave up the ghost and I wasn't able to get replacement parts. The C-6's were good too, but with the much greater bass output, they were difficult to work with in a small to medium size room. The 'even numbers' were Canadian made as were the early 'odd numbers.' At some point, I think when Klipsch go involved, they moved production to China.

I've heard so much about the 22's but never heard them, and now, I guess they're too old to find in reasonably good condition. Also, the Veritas line was supposed to be good but I never heard them, either. Glad to be comfortable with the Axioms and don't feel I have to keep looking!

I was quite interested in Energy's Veritas v2.8 flagship, both because of their reputation as a flagship, and the fact that audio writer Daniel Kumin of Sound & Vision (Canada) and Sound & Vision (US) owned a pair as his reference speaker and often used them as his basis of comparison when auditioning review speakers.

I didn't learn to properly decipher speaker measurements until 2021, so I didn't realize that their measurements were atrocious. They look worse than the $24,000 B&W Matrix 801’s measurements that Dr. Floyd Toole likes to make fun of on Powerpoint for being outperformed by $200 rivals. Who knew that separate midrange and tweeter enclosures introduces unwanted resonances? I've since come to the conclusion that we're adaptive to our environment and can learn to like whatever speaker we own.

That thread where Stereoguy99 chose the Premier 800F over the M60HP taught me that a non-neutral lifted treble is a market place expectation. Every loudspeaker I’ve owned since the early 90’s has a lifted treble, the exception being my M5HP’s. You can tell there’s lift because you hear treble air, sparkle, and brilliance when listening to human speech. BTW, human voices don’t have treble air, sparkle, and brilliance.

Still, listening to speakers at home in your own room, using your own music, and comparing back-to-back with a candidate rival is a fair comparison. I reread the Veritas review, and if a poorly spectrally unbalanced loudspeaker can still earn praise in double blind listening tests, I wonder if there’s something else that wins double blind listening tests beyond Olive score or Spinorama metrics?

C-2
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/h0dc...zy14iyos8j2ecci&st=o410drkq&dl=0

Energy Veritas v2.8
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mruj...2x3r57oxrj5lltl&st=4ieo5sxf&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lazp...jaha7y9i47zhcgx&st=lnvac2x1&dl=0

Ethera Vitae
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1lsv...fbng0vmorzn3l1w&st=v15yy825&dl=0

These reviews were usually penned by Ian G. Masters. Himself and Alan Lofft were usually the main panelists, and they just tore every loudspeaker apart critically, all without knowing what they were listening to. The reviews are succinct, brilliant, and relevant even 30 years later.