Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler OT: politics

There is no scientifically proven link between vaccines and autism, or breast implants and autoimmune diseases, for that matter. Dow Corning was driven into bankruptcy because some people said their product caused disease, despite the lack of a scientifically proven link.

There have been a few problems with live polio virus causing polio in susceptible individuals, and pertussis used to cause seizures in rare instances, but both these problems have been resolved because of research and improvement in existing vaccines.

Mark

Thanks, Doc, I feel better.

What's better Viagra or Levitra? JK, LOL, etc... Don't actually need one... really.

by the looks of your avatar, i think you are doing pretty good there bigwill!!

funny story.. a few years ago when one of my buddies graduated from college, we were having a party for him. now he is a young guy, 27 yrs old, and plenty healthy.. anyway, he had a young lady that was obviously going to be his companion for the evening, so his boss gave him a viagra pill kind of as a joke. well, my buddy took the pill once the evening died down and it was time for the late night activities to begin. now, as he tells the story, he dont know if it was the pill, the alcohol he drank, or a combination of the both, but he says after a few hours, the girl literally told him to get off her, cause she had had enough, and couldnt do it no more. now, if thats not a thumbs up review, then i dont know what is??

i aint trying to hyjack the politics thread, but the last post made me think of this story.. well, i guess if we were talking about slick willy, then i wouldnt be too far off the thread topic after all!!

bigjohn

I have been sitting back reading this post for some time. I decided it's time to jump into the mix. Most of this talk about the healthcare system in the US is bullsh..t.

To preface, my wife and I are both professionals. I have a bachelor's degree and she has her masters. I work as a probation officer and my wife works for a major hospital in the area.

Back in February of this year, my 37 year old wife was diagnosed with breast cancer. Bam, hit like a ton of bricks. She began by getting a biopsy, followed by x-rays, bone scans and and many other tests. None cheap. Later came the first 4 rounds of chemo. 3 antinausea drugs by IV followed by 2 different chemo drugs at each treatment. Once again, not cheap. Actually more than a $1,000 per treatment. Following the 4 rounds of chemo came surgery. Total masectomy as well as samples of lymph nodes. With room, anesthesia, surgeon, etc, cost was over $20,000. After surgery comes 4 more rounds of chemo. The drug this time costs more than $5,000 per dose. Next comes reconstructive surgery. Not sure what that will cost yet. Add in costs of visits to Oncologist and Oncology surgeon as well as wigs due to hair loss and the total bill will be in excess of $100,000.

My point is this. My wife did not ask for this disease. Don't get me wrong, we are grateful for all the Dr's who are treating her, without them, I know what the outcome would be. However, the costs to us have been astronomical even with insurance. Thank goodness we do ok financially. But what about those who don't. What would their fate be.

I consider myself to be a little more liberal than conservative on most issues but not all. That being said, this country needs to do something about the healthcare system. Why should any lifesaving drug cost more than $5,000 per dose? Why should the doctor's have to get prior approval for treatments. My wife's white bloodcell count dropped so low she ended up in the emergency room. The Oncologist had to get approval to give her a drug (neurlasta) sp? to keep her count up after chemo? We as a country somehow need to make "good" medical care available to everyone, not just those who can afford it.

Sorry for the rant, but those who see a problem with healthcare for everyone, probably are not going through what my wife and I are right now. It's easy to sit back and make blanket statements about things without ever being in that situation. As I said, my wife works in the medical field and is paid very well for what she does. But if she was not, we would be in big trouble.

scotta- sorry for what you and your family is having to go through.

thank you for sharing your perspective. its sometimes hard to see 'the whole picture', unless you can see it through another mans eyes.

i hope that all will turn out well for you and your wife.

bigjohn

I'm sorry to hear about all that calamity. I don't think anyone is going to dispute that health care can be expensive.

But effective cancer treatment was there for your wife. That is more than can be said for all of humanity that lived before the mid-point of the last century, or for the masses in the 3rd World.

We have it pretty damn good - even if it does cost us some cash to save our lives from illness and disease.

BigWill,

I agree. I am greatful that the care is there for my wife. If not the outlook would be much more grim. My point is that it needs to be available to everyone, rich, poor, white, black. That is if you are a US citizen. I could not imagine what I would tell my 11 year old daughter, if we could not get the care needed for her mother.

Scott,

My mother went through that exact same list nearly 20 years ago. I hope that your wife started getting treatments early. My mother's condition was pretty far along before they discovered it.

In reply to:

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Why should any lifesaving drug cost more than $5,000 per dose?

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It shouldn't, that was precisely the point that I was trying to make. However, just like the live Polio vaccine that the Doc spoke about, 1 patient out of 1 million MAY be harmed by the use of the vaccine. When that 1 person comes along, they and their lawyer will be awarded with a lawsuit in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Guess who really pays these gigantic lawsuits? You and I do the next time we purchase the product or service. After the lawsuit, the insurance company will raise the rate, and guess what? The next dose will cost you $5500. The pharmaceutical certainly isn't going to take it out of their pockets. If they did, their PE ratio would go down, the stock price would fall, and the company would go out of business. Then you wouldn't get any dose at any price.

The court system is a snowball rolling down a mountain. Every year, the lawsuits get bigger and bigger and the cost of products and services goes up. This is NOT unique to the field of medicine. It cuts across all industries, and we all pay more than we need to for everything.

You also mentioned that the medical folks need to get approval for procedures. I think that is 100% Barbara Streisand as well. When is someone going to sue an insurance company (and their lawyers) for practicing medicine without a license?

Maybe this is too simple then, but can't they just warn you at the hospital that the drug they are about to give you has a 1 in a million chance of killing you, and you have to sign something not to sue if it actually does? If I need whatever that drug is bad enough to get me through whatever health issue I am having, you get to the point that you are willing to try it regardless of the odds and shouldn't get to sue if it doesn't work...they are just trying to do whatever they can to save your life.

The only time I see the lawsuits coming in is in the gross malpractice cases where they give you something completely different from what they were supposed to and it does damage....even then, some of the payouts are just ridiculous.

Perhaps we need healthcare like auto insurance...full tort and limited tort at different prices, so the sue happy people pay more, but are covered with their full tort policy.

Could the solution be: Kill all the lawyers and burn down the law schools? Just kidding, I know a lawyer who ISN'T a scumbag.