Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler OT: politics

2x6, You are more than correct. A business partner of mine was in special forces for 7 years. He still is in contact with many friends still in the middle east... They do not value life, they do want us eradicated. Gone. DEAD !!

The example of the World Trade Center's height offending the Muslim world is just plain STUPID... The tallest HOTEL in Saudi Arabia is 900 FEET high... I could go on for hours about things learned... but this is a true war... against an enemy who KNOWS they violate the Geneva convention in every action...

What are they counting on for victory ?

1. Our Naivety.
2. Our Apathy.
3. Our basic belief that others cherish life as we do.

Yes, craigsub, and the tallest building in the world is in Kuala Lampur. Under Sharia, Christians may not build new churches and Jews no synogogues, and if any were taller than the local mosque, well, they had to come down. These symbols signify differently in our culture and their's. It would never, in a million years, occur to a westerner to bring down the Petronas Towers - but when the WTC Twin Towers came down there was an enormous celebration all over that part of the world - the only exception was Tehran, where a substantial crowd had the courage to hold a candle light vigil.

They also count on us dividing against each other as factions in our democracies compete for power. Not just here but in Israel and Europe as well.
They seem to be pretty damn good at using the media and other sources for dispensing propaganda - turning the freedom of speech and of the press against us (not advocating restrictions on those freedoms, just pointing it out ).

BTW, md55, I have been called a reactionary before (although I joined the Libertarian Party - couldn't find the "Reactionary Party" on the list at the polling place).

Are you a communist?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/bigwill/dco0139l.jpg

Yes! Let's all collectively disengage our brains and unite behind whoever happens to be leading us at the moment -- this means Kerry, too, if he wins the election!

Surely blind unity is the answer to all our troubles.

PM ... You make a good point. Afterall, what did Unity behind a Democratic President do in WWII? ... oh yeah, total victory... we cannot have that going on now...

Are you saying there are parallels between WWII and the current military situation in Iraq? If so, then you have a point. If not, then what exactly are you saying?

Unity behind a president who put our country into an existing war, (in no small part) as a result of a direct attack on our soil, is a no-brainer. Unity behind a president whose administration has misled and made mistake after uncorrected/unadmitted mistake is a little harder to justify, wouldn't you say?

PM, I know people like you. There is no convincing, so we will leave it at rest. I could, however, write volumes about WWII, from Pearl Harbor to Nagasaki, which had errors. You get the benefit of looking back and criticizing. Leaders have to look into the future and do their best.

By the way. Germany did not attack us on 12/07/41 ... and had stated publicly for years they wanted peace with the US...

I think Hitler would have been happy to have peace with us, until he controlled all of Europe and Russia that is. Then we would have been next on the list and would have had to fight him alone since the countries that ended up being allies would have been beaten or at least weakened a lot. Japan thought they were doing a good thing for their side in Pearl Harbor, but it backfired on them in the long run. Who knows how WWII would have turned out if Japan didn't attack us and we stayed in isolation for a couple of years longer.

Zarak, Of course, you are correct. Germany DID want to rule the world with Japan. I am also quite sure Hitler was FUMING when he heard about Pearl Harbor. On the other hand, I am sure Hirohito was pretty yanked about Germany invading Russia.

And PM, I am being somewhar tongue in cheek. But we WERE attacked, by people who want to wipe us off the face of the earth. I also personally know of 3 terrorist training grounds which were found in Iraq... one which was the body of a 747... and the accounts were quickly deleted from public view. Why? Most likely information control... you don't always let the other side know what YOU know...

And every war has mistakes... I asked this before, and was ignored. I will try again...

1. Have you read what the French wrote on 11-08-02 ? It is posted here.

2. Can you point out all the politians that were NOT convinced that Iraq had WMD's on 12-01-03 ?

3. Another question... we massed troops 30 days after the final ultimatum... then tried for 3 more months... do you think Saddam MIGHT have taken that opportunity to get rid of them ? Perhaps to Syria ? Iran ?

You say blindly following... I see blindly opposed to anything... as many on the left are... that Bush says or does.

Personally, I am also a libertarian, and would love to get the government more out of my life... But I also trust/believe that our current President is doing a pretty good job under impossible circumstances...

Personally, I have problems with authority - one of the reasons why I'm pretty happy with the job I have.

Team sports teach us valuable lessons - at least they used to - about unity, sacrifice, hard work, selflessness and success. When you put your team before your self you are not doing so to empower the coach - you do it for the greater good of your teammates. Later, if it turns out the coach is an a-hole, he gets fired.
We are in a war in Iraq for better or worse - many years from now, but not yet IMO, it will be clear exactly which. In the meantime we might as well present a unified front to our enemies. And, once again, Kerry has publicly stated many times over that he will continue the efforts in Iraq should he be elected (although he can't seem to make up his mind whether he'll be sending in more troops or using less troops).
So why doesn't everybody get on board and help get this thing done?