Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler OT: politics

BigWill,

No need to apologize. I did not take what you said as a personal attack on me. Craigsub took care of that. I just felt like you were clumping anyone with liberal ideas into a category of mouth puppets. I have formed my views over time and through experience. You are right that many younger people, such as some of the protesters, are oblivious to what is actually going on. But I see that from both sides.

I have both liberal views and conservative views. I classify myself as independent and will vote for who I think will do the best job. Period. I am conservative in that I think government should cut spending and let me keep more of my check. I think the major cutd should come in foreign aid though. We need to worry about our country first.

When it comes to the environment, I am deffinitely more liberal. We are too dependant on oil and natural gas. We need to develop alternative fuels. We have the technology in many cases already, but our goverment does not push those alternatives.

Even though I work in law enforcement, I believe some drugs should be legalized. We create problems by making marijuana illegal just as we did when we made another drug, alcohol, illegal during prohibition. It did not work because the demand was always there. We created crime by creating bootleggers and organized crime organizations. Our jails and prisons in Indiana are all overcrowded. We are releasing people early to make room. I would rather use the room for serious criminals. I use an example. I had a man in Court that molested three young girls. A class C felony in out state. He received an 8 year sentence. Another man that was dealing in a lookalike substance, not even a drug, but powdered sugar, received a 15 year sentence. You tell me who should be locked up longer.

I think this nation is so polarized into democrats/republicans, liberals/conservatives that nothing effective can be done. We need to work together to fix al the problems or we never will.

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1) The constitution is not meant to deny any group of people equal rights.

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I will agree

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2) Stem Cell research should be funded.

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It is, obviously not to the amount of everyones liking.

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3) If you don't believe that the US's role in the world is to topple any and all governments that we dislike.

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This belief is a based on twisting a disagreement of our actions in Iraq. I would agree we should not topple every wrong government, but this war on terror may and will demand we put an end to governments that support terror. Yes Iran and Sierra are on notice.

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4) If you want to keep Church and State separate.

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/sigh, I'm not religious but its completely obvious to me GW is a religious man but in no way does he merge church and state.

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5) Supreme court justice appointments.

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Absolutely! We totally need to remove judges that CREATE law instead of interpret law. This could be the single most important issue that doesn't get enough discussion.

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6) If you believe in the U.N. and what it stands for.

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Well I definitely don't support what the U.N. stands for... which is blatent anti-US policies. As stated here before there are more dictatorship governments represented there than any other. EVERY government there is only concerned about what is in their own best interest. The Sudan situation PROVES this point perfectly. It's a no brainer, go in and stop the killing.

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7) If you are pro-choice.

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I am completely for choice, it just seems the baby is the one without the choice to decide to live or die.

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8) If you believe in actively seeking and funding alternative fuel sources to help cut our dependancy on foreign oil, rather than simply drilling in our own national parks.

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More could be done on this issue, I won't argue it.

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9) You want a President that will respect our allies.

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What "allies" do we disrespect? I believe its the other way around here.

Scott... I did not attack you, I took offense at your words. "These life experiences lead me to be a liberal, someone who cares about other human beings."

That means someone who is NOT liberal does NOT care.

In an ironic twist... My wife needed to go to the Hospital tonight... Allergic reaction to some food. There was a sign in the ER ....:

ITS THE LAW. IF YOU ENTER THE ER, WE MUST GIVE YOU THE BEST CARE WE CAN PROVIDE, INCLUDING PROVIDING AMBULANCE SERVICE TO ANOTHER MEDICAL FACILITY, EVEN IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY NOR INSURANCE TO PAY FOR TREATMENTS RECEIVED. WE ARE GUARANTEED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO BE REIMBURSED FOR SERVICES RENDERED."

It does get tiring to be told how unfeeling we are because of all the people without insurance.

I also know scores of people, from business owners to factory workers to teachers to engineers. I have NEVER heard someone say those TRULY in need should not get the help he/she needs. My bride is fine, BTW...:)

Good to hear.

Talking about life experiences (I apologize to whomever heard this story in a PM already), I was shopping in a Vegas grocery store a few years ago, avoided the expensive beer I really wanted and decided on a beer that was on sale. Immediately in front of me at the check-out stand was a couple - mid 40s probably - buying all kinds of name brand stuff: Hagen Daz, Evian, filet mignon, etc... The lady paid for her fancy groceries with vouchers or food stamps or something while the man whipped out a wad of bills and paid for a $30 bottle of VSOP with cash! I felt like I was watching a crime take place.
I've only had Hagen Daz 3 times, and I've never had Evian.

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I've only had Hagen Daz 3 times, and I've never had Evian.

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You might be missing out on the ice cream, but you're definitely not missing out on the water. Read "Evian" backwards and that's what you have to be to pay that much for water.

Craigsub,

Sorry, apparently I took the "YOU" in capital letters differently than you intended. You are correct in that a hospital cannot refuse emergency care to anyone in need. I understand that, my wife works in the medical field.

I definitely do not think all conservatives are uncaring. That would be ridiculous. There are also many uncarring liberals. There are always those that worry only about themselves.

I get tired of hearing how every individual that needs assistance is some kind of evil lowlife scum. Yes there are abuses, but there are those that truly need assistance. The handicapped did not choose to be that way, but if not for many programs they would find it difficult to survive. I described my fathers case and frankly it pisses me off to hear people basically say it is his fault and he should receive no assistance. We tend to focus on the abuses in any program and assume everyone is like those who abuse. That is not the case.

As a kid, I worked in a convenience store and saw the same abuse with foodstamps. People would by food with the stamps and save their cash for alcohol and cigarettes. Clearly an abuse of the system. But I have seen others that do work, but need foodstamps to help feed their families.

Like I said before, things are not black and white no matter how much we would like them to be.

Scott

Food Stamps are an example of what's wrong with this government. I'm sure that the food stamp program costs billions of dollars, with at least half that figure the cost of the beaurocracy that administers the program. Why not just place barrels of beans and rice in every grocery store that anybody can take for free? Nobody would starve, and this would cost a fraction of what the food stamp program costs.

Mark

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I get tired of hearing how every individual that needs assistance is some kind of evil lowlife scum.

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I get tired of hearing how every individual that needs assistance is a victim. IMO, most people who wind up on welfare are there because of their own choices. True, most handicapped did not choose to be that way, but when you start making alcohol and drug abuse a "handicap", your argument breaks down.

If I want to have a child, I have to think about whether my income level will support that child, and how I am going to pay for its food, clothing and shelter. These realities affect my reproductive freedom. Suggest that welfare recipients be encouraged to stop having children, and you are compared unfavorably to a Nazi.

I am tired of being told that i am "rich". Whenever a tax cut is proposed, the left cries "it's for the rich!" Well guess what? There is no such thing as a tax cut for the poor. The poor don't pay taxes. The poor get tax credits. Low income workers can get a refund that is much bigger than their tax withheld. It's called the "earned income credit". You can't cut taxes for people who pay negative tax.

Before World War II, government spending averaged about 3% of the GNP. Today that figure is 40%. Think about that. 40 cents of every dollar generated in this country is consumed by the government. Some want to add the cost of one of the largest industries in the nation, namely health care, to that number. This would be an absolute disaster. Can you think of anything that the government does more efficiently and at a lower cost than private industry?

Mark

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I am tired of being told that i am "rich". Whenever a tax cut is proposed, the left cries "it's for the rich!" Well guess what? There is no such thing as a tax cut for the poor. The poor don't pay taxes. The poor get tax credits. Low income workers can get a refund that is much bigger than their tax withheld. It's called the "earned income credit". You can't cut taxes for people who pay negative tax.

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I don't think most people who cry about tax cuts for the rich are suggesting that the tax cuts need to be for the poor. As you point out, the truly poor pay little or no taxes. It's the bulk of the middle class that's pissed. Cutting taxes of dividend income was CLEARLY a free pass for the ultra wealthy to get even wealthier. In fact, since that tax cut went into effect, many, many CEO's and other corporate big wigs have cut their "salaries" and given themselves huge dividend payments.

While I don't really agree with the estate tax, the cut again benefitted only the ultra rich. What most people don't realize is that the first $200,000 of inheritence was never taxed before. It's only the amount OVER $200,000 that was taxed. So again...who benefited from that? I dispise "trickle down economics". America benefits as middle America benefits.

Bigwill- i can totally relate to your story. few weeks back i am at the grocery store and the family in front of me(with their 5 kids) had 2 carts of merchandise.. the funny part was, one cart was food, the other was hygeine stuff(detergent, soap, school supplies, etc). they pay cash for the non-food, and then whip out a government food card for the rest.. and in the food basket was, $8 dollar a pound T-bone steaks, ben and jerry ice cream, deli grade sliced cold cuts and cheeses, expensive cereals, and all 'name brand' products. it pissed me off, cause i dont get to eat the high end, name brand food.. and i sure dont have the government paying for it. they should put restrictions on it like they do the WIC programs.

i was fumming when i went home that day. and went home and made dinner.. generic rice and beans, and ground round meatloaf.. some T-bones would have sure been nice..

bigjohn