Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M22 Vs. JMlab Chorus 706

Thanks to all who replied! I wanted to add that the Onkyo 8511 has plenty of power (100 watts/140 peak). I did not specify what I was intending to upgrade to; I was considering the NAD C-350(60 watts x2), or the C-370(120 watts x2)Integrated Amp.. I listen to hard rock / blues rock, at moderate levels most of the time. I was given the impression that the 60 watt NAD would give me higher quality sound, and enough power for my needs. The C-350 was my most likely choice, budget wise. I'm looking for a step up in 'quality of sound'. I paid $295.00 for the Onkyo, and the NAD costs $430.00; I obviously don't want to spend that kind of money, if there won't be a great deal of improvement in sound quality. It is very confusing, when you read all these different reports, and hear different opinions. I just want to make an intelligent choice.
Any thoughts on my CD player; Integra CDC 3.1 ?
I appreciate your thoughts and information.

Danny

I don't quite buy into the lo-fi/mid-fi/hi-fi argument myself since it's mainly predicated on price and pedigree (as well as, perhaps, a dose of envy?), but I have also heard a great deal of difference between electronic components.

For example, when I was shopping around for a decent 2-channel setup, I auditioned the NHT 1.5s. I first listened to them hooked up to a NAD C340 amp with a NAD C540 as the source. I was duly impressed since I had really never heard quality sound reproduction before. A few weeks later, I returned to the same store and asked to listen to the 1.5s again. This time, a different salesman hooked them up to a Denon receiver and Yamaha CD/CD-R deck. No offense to owners of Denon or Yamaha, but the setup just did not sound right. The treble was grating and the midrange was lifeless. Wondering if I had 'misremembered' the sound quality of the speakers, I asked the salesman to wire the 1.5s back up to the NAD combo. There was no contest as to which setup sounded better.

On another tangent (I know this post is getting way too long), I own and have paired the M3Tis with equipment costing multiples of its price: Analysis Plus Oval 9 speaker wire, Plinius 8100 integrated, Heart CD6000, which replaced the RadioShack 12 AWG 'megacable', NAD C350, and Pioneer DV333 that I used before. Each new purchase was an 'upgrade' to my ears - but notice what I *didn't* replace: the speakers. I never felt that the M3Ti's were a limiting factor in the performance of my setup.

Gee, so what's the moral?

In my opinion, components do sound different and are priced differently. Whether they're priced *accordingly* is a matter for your ears and wallet to decide. Don't let naysayers from either camp dissuade you from pursuing the kind of sound that *you* want. After all, you're the one who has to live with your system.


p.s. Also consider the used market... Audiogon (www.audiogon.com) has tons of classified ads for audio equipment.

My advice is to upgrade your source component. This doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of your existing CD player. If your CD player has a digital out have you thought about getting an outboard DAC.

Think about it this way. If you take the money you spend on a CD changer and spread it out between it's parts, you can see that there is alot of money spent on mechanical parts that in no way aid the musical signal, in fact they probably degrade it.
Now take that theory and apply it to a DAC. Virtually all your money is spent on parts that will influence the musical signal, plus you get to keep the convience of the 6 disc changer.
You may think that a DAC is too much money. There are, however, some companies that make some very affordable DACs. I have a Channel Island Audio DAC that I bought for $350 including a digital cable. It's a very small box that would be easy to hide if you were so inclined. There are also other companies like MSB and Cambridge Audio that make some affordable DACs. Many of them are upgradable too.

I hope this was of some help to you.

An intersting post that has created an excellent debate.

Here is my view on this - your choice of amplifiers is more of a lateral move than an upgrade. Your present Onkyo is a decent piece, and to upgrade to a Rotel or NAD would be noticeable, but not significant. You may want to aim a little higher if you are able to justify the expense.

As for the speakers, JMLabs make a range of speakers, from the affordable to the astonishingly expensive. As with most mfg'ers who have a vast line, some are better than others. They do make some excellent models, and some....less than excellent models. In your pro/con debate, you seem to have chosen the winner, so you should go with that.

Your main area for upgrades as I see it is the CD player. Multi disc units are convenience appliances, and single units that are better suited to your task are available. This of course depends on your needs/wants, and maybe you want the multi disc unit. This unit would fit with your amp in the upper end of lowfi, while your speakers are in the midfi realm...to use your terms and scales.

The many debate as to whether your speakers would reveal a difference using better amps, CD units, etc is interesting. The answer is a definite...maybe - depending on the level of the replacement pieces. Simply stated, by replacing ANY piece with a far superior piece, the difference should be audible. Yes, you should hear the audible difference of a better amp, and it would not be limited to a cetain price range/quality build of your speakers. Having been in this business for many decades, I can state that expensive speakers and mediocre source/amps is less satisfying that the opposite. I have 2 systems of differing quality/price points. By moving pieces in and out, I have proven this to many folks who ask the same quality.

But your mileage may vary. You did generate a very interesting, eloquent debate!

BBIBH,

You say my CD player is the component to change; how godd of a player is this in your opinion? I paid $300.00 for it.
I do enjoy the feature of playing random tracks from 6 discs, but if I would get better sound quality from a single disc unit, I would get one. Can you give me two or three brand/model #'s of players that would give me a very noticable improvement in sound quality? My budget max. is 500.00 to $800.00.
You talked about "aiming higher than the NAD or Rotel Amps", does this apply to a cd player also? If I have to spend over a grand to get any noticable difference, I may have to live with what I have for a while?

It always comes down to,"how much is it gonna cost me"? :-)

Thanks Again
Danny

Danny, once a CD has been put into position to be read by the laser, whether that's been done by a human hand or by a mechanical device, that part of the process is over. The CD is read identically and the sound is audibly identical. If you have, or plan to have, a large collection of CDs one of the changers that hold several hundred discs might be considered in the future.

Now JohnK... That might be true if your single disc and multi-disc player both used identical pickup, electronics, amp, DAC, and output circuits. But please don't try and tell me that a $150 6-disc Sony changer is going to sound 'audibly identical' to a $600 or $900 JoLida single disc player that uses tubes in the pre-amp output stage. If you are using the digital output on a CD player then you are more likely to get similar sound since you are using the exact same DAC (the one in your reciever) However some CD players handle error correction and such differently and will produce different sound even out the digital output. But if you are using the analog outputs all bets are off, because some use really crappy (and probably cheap) DACs, and others use good DACs (HDCD capable, or Burr-Brown ones come to mind) that cost more.

You are exactly correct, but it goes beyond what you mention. The electronics section aside, the mechanical transports are very important to ensuring how a piece will perform

The fact of the mechanical interactions and parts play a significant part in translating the information to sound. By the sheer fact that a $150 Sony (to use your example) single changer must accomplish much more than that of the single disc $600-900 Jolida (...again, your example) means that much less attention budgetwise is paid to the transport mechanisms. Add in the fact the machine must now deal with multiple discs, and how does a mfg'er accomplish proper rigidity when the costs are to be controlled?

Wishful thinking!

Anyway, the CD player referenced is a decent model, from a mfg'er who produced decent equipment. The original post was looking to make a lateral change of amps. He must decide if/what he wants to replace - and the features he requires.

You are absolutely correct - cost is an important factor.

You mentioned the phrase " noticeable difference". As you may have read here, most changes will be noticeable. That does not mean better or worse, but you will notice the difference.

You have to determine where you want to go, before you randomly upgrade. That can be an expensive journey!

You no doubt have seen many posts for equipment, from many people. There are as many opinions and comments as you want to read. I would suspect that for your budget you could upgrade your system, piece by piece. You can find single disc players of good quality such as Cambridge Audio, Creek, Roksan, Rega - albiet they may stretch you budget for some models. A similar list can be made for amps. I am not familiar with multi disc units, but I am sure they can also be had.

This may sound funny, but why do you feel the need to look for upgrades? Excuse me if I missed this in your posts. Maybe if you can answer what is lacking, you can decide the approach

I think it's time you did a little auditioning.

Find a good dealer who carries some of the products you're pondering. You might first audition an amp upgrade. See if you can take them home and try them in your own setup. This is important because there is no way to tell what kind of improvment a component will make, without inserting that component into your system. Also audition some new CD players and a DAC. A good dealer will let you take some of these things home. You should probably reward that dealer with a purchase, however, as it's not good practice to audition many things, only to later go find something else on the internet. It's all about building a good relationship with a dealer. Plus the dealer has probably heard countless different systems, and can more acurately point out weaknesses in your system. Getting advice from us can only take you so far. Most of us are limited in our experience with different products.

So go out and try some new things, and then you will never question your purchase.