Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Axiom m80ti vs Energy Connoisseur C-7

USP, welcome. As you've probably gathered by now, what was heard at the store is about 180 degrees away from almost all other reports on the M80s, including those who preferred other speakers. Since personal preference seemingly couldn't explain such a difference, I'll again mention something that's happened here twice in the past: were the mids and tweeters on the M80s accidentally(or otherwise)disconnected because the connecting straps on the terminals were loosened?

Well, I will check into the connecting straps and make sure everything is OK with them (I assume you mean the external crossover plates). Secondly the whole volume thing I think is a wash, only because at one point the volume of the speakers I didn't like were actually louder. The only other possibility is some tampering of the speakers controls in the receiver, but I think this is unlikely because it was the same setup for both, the salesman was just using a speaker switcher (not even switching the cables back and forth). I was curious of everyone's input only because like everyone else seems to be saying these speakers should be better. I was looking to see if anyone was thinking blown driver (but I don't think so), bad wiring (but it doesn't appear one speaker outperforms the other), so I was trying to get some additional input from those of you who have head to headed these speakers. I am bringing them back to the store today to give them another listen with my original salesperson (who was out the first time I did the head to head) and we shall see what results we get.

hello usp...

When you took them to the store the 1st time, it sounded like the M80s were placed to the outside of the Energys. This places them wider apart, which creates the sweet spot farther away. Maybe the Energys, being closer together, created a sweet spot closer to where you were sitting. Put an M80 on the right (or left) side of each Energy. When you switch back and forth between speakers, move your listening position the same amount left and right so that you are always listening from the center of the pair that you are listening to. The imaging is always best in the center, regardless of the speaker.

Use an SPL meter to level match them.

Toe in/out. Keep it to less than 1/4". Too much seems to create "confusion" (at least it does with my 60s).

Why not ask the sales guy to bring a pair by YOUR place for an in-home demo? Tell him to bring the speaker switch & some wire. Neither speaker is going to sound the same in your house as it did in the showroom. If he won't do it. Ask him if he'll let you buy a pair, and bring them back "no questions asked" if you don't like them? If the Energys sound better to you there, I say keep them.

Michael,

In reply to:

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Why not ask the sales guy to bring a pair by YOUR place for an in-home demo? Tell him to bring the speaker switch & some wire. Neither speaker is going to sound the same in your house as it did in the showroom. If he won't do it. Ask him if he'll let you buy a pair, and bring them back "no questions asked" if you don't like them? If the Energys sound better to you there, I say keep them.

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You beat me to it,that's exactly what I was going to suggest.

That's what I did with the C-3's. I bought a pair of M22ti's and a pair of Energy C-3's and did my own in-home comparison. I truly expected to be sending the Axiom's back, but I was happily surprised. (the Axiom's were $100 less expensive!)

That's probably the best solution. Bring those C-7's home.

From what I've heard the M80's like a lot of space. How close to them do you sit when listening? How far apart are they from eachother?

Well, as for the the positioning, the speakers were actually the same distance apart, the Axioms were placed to the right of the Energys both times. Granted my listening position in the store was closer then at home, but a lot of what I heard in the store, I heard at home. When I went back and did a second audition I was able to more precisely put my finger on what was up, the midrange on the Energys were actually a little clearer, and the bass is not as pronounced on the Energies either, so I think this gave me an overall feeling of a shift up in the speakers to sounding bright. Due to this, I think that's why I liked the Energies better, I wasn't a big fan of B&W's 600 series, and not a big fan of Bostons. I would have to say that the salesman was excellent at trying to remain unbiased and did state that the speakers were great speakers, but it depended on the sound that you liked if you were going to like these. As for the in home demo, it's not possible since the dealer has to special order everything due to my wood choices, and no liberal return policy. Thank you everyone for all your help and input.

>>the midrange on the Energys were actually a little clearer, and the bass is not as pronounced on the Energies either, so I think this gave me an overall feeling of a shift up in the speakers to sounding bright

OK, this is starting to sound a bit familiar. The M80s have been reported to have "too much bass" in some rooms unless they are at least a couple of feet away from the wall (ie front of the speaker is 3-1/2 to 4 feet from the back wall). It's not that the M80 has a problem, just that it's a large, rear-ported speaker with deep bass extension.

If the distance from the back of the M80s to any wall is <2 feet try pulling them out further from the wall and that should help. I would start by pulling them way out into the room and listening like that first.

Part of the challenge here is that the M80 looks to be a much bigger speaker than the C-7 -- from the specs C-7s seem to be closer to M40s/50s in size -- and smaller speakers are often easier to place unless the room is fairly large.

What can you tell us about your listening room at home ?

As others said, it's vital the volume levels be matched. It's simple to do, yet you can't do that by ear. Just play pink noise at the expected listening volume, measure the SPL with a meter, switch speakers, compare the SPL and that's your correction factor in db.

In reality the correction factor will vary depending on listening level, so to be really exact you'd do that for several listening levels, and apply a different correction factor for each. It's really quick once you're used to it, since virtually all amps have db volume readouts.

Another major factor is the amp should be in "direct stereo" mode with all digital processing disabled. Without this, it's easily possible digital time arrival, EQ, bass management, etc could favor one speaker over the other.

Make certain it's in two-channel direct stereo mode, all digital stuff disabled, no surround speakers or sub configured.

Ok, here's the down and dirty in a nutshell...

The in store test was definately fair (as for the eq, I have no idea if there was any processing, I didn't check, but my salesman isn't a big fan of processing and I don't think he would have all of a sudden started putting some on... he's been straight up so far. As for the volume, on a couple of switches both the Axioms and the Energys were the louder speaker and I still chose the Energys each time. Secondly, me and my wife alternated spots to make sure we were in the sweet spot for each of the speakers a couple of times). Here's where the difference was made... 4 feet from the wall.... The soundstage exploded, the instruments became much more defined and the spacial orientation was great, the voices were still a little enclosed, but not as bad as before. But herein lies the problem as well, 4 feet off my wall is just about the center of my family room, not really an option... So with regret I will let them go, but at least now I feel better that I wasn't snookered by an online site and would highly recommend these guys if you can pull them that far off the wall, as even two feet drastically cut down the performance in my room. I would have to say that the Energys were better when both were up against the wall, and that is basically a restriction in my room that I have.

PS-Thank you everyone for all your help, suggestions, and comments. I do appreciate the help, and it really was a fun experience doing all this testing. Thanks again.

Enjoy your Energy's. Thanks for taking the time to test them out again and letting us know what you found.