Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Opinions wanted on upgrade

Well chesseroo
Everything tends to sound good in my living room, my digestion is fine, the same system with an 8 year old JVC CD changer sounded wonderful, and even better with the Ah! The only variable was the Cambridge D500SE. I made my conclusions, you are of course free to make your own. I immediately sold the Cambridge unit and am happy with the Ah!/ASL/Michaura combination.

The only other components were the speaker wires (Mapleshade Clearview Double Golden Helix Plus), and the Maple Audio Ambience interconnects. I know there is a division among gurus as to whether cabling makes a difference.

In any case, the Cambridge receives good reviews. Instead of saying that the Cambridge stinks, I suggested that maybe it just didn't get along with the other components in my system.

My description of the Cambridge, blowsy, loose bass, congested mids ... etc. is how I heard it and those are the words which came closest to describing what I heard at the time.

Not that I need to say anything more on the subject, but I sat some friends down, including a golden eared acoustic guitar player, played my favorite test CDs (Getz/Jobim, Loreena McKennett, etc.), did not lead them ("sounds terrible doesn't it?" - would be leading)and each agreed, that particular Cambridge just did not reproduce music very well.

So, Chesseroo, I don't know what put your nose out of joint, the idea that a CDP can have the described effect on music reproduction, or my choice of words, or the idea that components may simply not get along very well. In any case, this is my take on it. You're entitled to your own.

I know, Joe. Just commenting on the silliness of it.

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Not that I need to say anything more on the subject, but I sat some friends down, including a golden eared acoustic guitar player, played my favorite test CDs...and each agreed, that particular Cambridge just did not reproduce music very well

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I think i have stated often enough that such casual listening 'tests' are inherently flawed and carry no confidence. This 'proof' is about as revealing as the (lack of) proof about Iraq and Al Qaida.

I certainly believe a cd player can have a different effect on sound but there has to be an electronic reasoning for it such as dramatically different DACs (or a tube influence). I haven't looked at the specs on these players but just offhand, the Ah tube cdp compared to a 8 year old JVC and a relatively new Cambridge could very well all sound different.

So why am i out of joint then?
Yes, the choice of words is rather unusual and as i tried to portray earlier, a highly unlikely description that a cdp can all of a sudden make the bass "loose and blowsy". Perhaps a crappy speaker could do that, but a decent quality cdp?
Is it really that dramatic?

As for the components not 'getting along', again, highly unlikely that the electronic signal in the cdp met up with the receiver and said "gee, you're a different electricity than me, lets clash".

I just thought it was all a bit dramitic. Ironic that this post adds to the theatrics eh?

On another note, i'm curious about the Ah! cdp you have. Do you have any pics or specs on it?

I relied on the favorable reviews by pundits of the Cambridge D500SE. As for me, what you described as "casual listening" and decry is the only test which is worth anything to me. Nevertheless, using the same CDs for a comparison where the only variable is the CDP seems to me to be a pretty good test.

"Blowsy, loose bass ..." I could have added out-of-control sounding bass, but I assure you, that had nothing to do with my speakers. As to the quality of the speakers I used for that test, I used my favorites, a pair of gorgeous cherry M3Tis, (I've since retired them and use another though Axiom made speaker), and an 8" Velodyne subwoofer which is capable of tight and musical bass. I can casually report that the combination of the M3s and Velodyne is very musical and pleasing.

I got my Ah! from Upscale Audio, very nice folks:

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/

G'luck!!

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Nevertheless, using the same CDs for a comparison where the only variable is the CDP seems to me to be a pretty good test.

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No. The listener in your test still has an awareness of what the source is of the test. As such, psychological effects such as pre-disposition will play a HUGE part in the results.

A good example of this effect is speaker wire. Everyone that's purchased expensive speaker wire swears by their results. Sit them down in a double blind and you won't get anything close to a consistent conclusion.

Counselor, I'll file my own brief, although I suppose another one really isn't needed. The problem with assigning the problems you describe to a CD player is that any competently engineered player these days reproduces 20-20Khz with essentially flat response and with inaudibly low distortion. There's no known technical reason for incompatibility with such a component that would destroy these response and/or distortion measurements.

Fine, fellas. First, you're right, never trust your ears! Casual listening tests are worthless. I suppose however, that if someone else who has conducted something better than a "casual listening test," tells you that a component sounds good, that would be something you should rely on.
In that case, though, why bother choosing Axiom speakers just because they sound better in "casual listening tests"?

Secondly, if all CDPs provide essentially flat response from 20-20KHz, (no real difference beween CDPs) get yourselves a discman, save yourselves the cost of a high zoot CDP and enjoy your systems!

Don't forget to connect your components with lamp cord.

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Secondly, if all CDPs provide essentially flat response from 20-20KHz, (no real difference beween CDPs) get yourselves a discman, save yourselves the cost of a high zoot CDP and enjoy your systems!

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Or a low end CD player with a digital out that lets the DAC in your receiver or preamp do the real work. It's a fairly mindless task to read and hand off a digital stream these days.

And I believe JohnK has had pretty good luck with lamp cord.

boys Boys BOYS!!!!
You guys just crack me up! (sorry, but I really was laughing out loud at some of the responses)

My take on the issue is that there is so much "magic" that occurs inside a CDP that it is possible that an evil spell somehow got into that Cambridge D500SE of 2x6spds and most likely caused the sound to be poor - perhaps you should consider an exorcist!


OK I am just kidding! In reality it is possible that there is/was indeed something wrong with the Cambridge D500SE. Perhaps an IC or other component was not functioning properly or the DAC converter wasn't just quite right. There are a lot of places where distortion could be introduced into the signal (both before and after DAC conversion)! (how about that old RIAA equalization curve?)

As far as the casual listening tests vs double blind tests vs at home instead of in a shop, etc.etc. - Hey we can only do SO much! I totally agree with chess in that any time you KNOW what components are being changed for a listening test, you "color" the results of the test. But we all do train our brains to listen for different things and "good" sound to me may be "bad" sound to you. Same for color, design, style, etc. So please don't be too hard on old 2x6spds! He does bring some good stuff to the forum! Even though you may not agree with him all the time!

Randyman

That's it Randyman.
That post of yours was the last straw.
How about we step outside eh?

Oh, waitaminute, you are way down there in Hawaii.
So lets see then, if we step outside here in Manitoba we freeze with the -30C temperatures.
If we step outside in Hawaii, we could get run down by one of our drunk driving politicians from British Columbia.

Hmmm, so many choices.